Carnage vs Spong June 26th!

[kirkg]

Not sure if this is old news (as a few threads have been hinting at big Carnage news in 2009) but the Gold Coast Bulletin has an article today on Nathan and it says that he's agreed to fight Tyrone Spong on June 26 in Jamaica.

It'll be at 93kg and with NO elbows!!

Just thought i'd pass it on for those who don't have the pleasure of the fine read that is the Weekend Bulletin ;)

[Supreme_Nerd]

That's awesom! It's a shame Tyrone Spong isn't willing to fight with elbows as he claims himself as a muay thai practitioner. But will still be an all out war none the less.

[scottya]

http://www.sportzblitz.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15325

Last i heard they had agreed to fight but rules still to be set

[scottya]

Sad but ture
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/04/04/66155_gold-coast-sport.html

[matt champion]

this is first time i really will pay just to see the carnage fight really really cool thats all ive got to say but wish it was ftr but not really going to happen as tyrone doesnt fight elbows so really happy to that carnage has listen to the fans and is putting on a fight that everyone wants to see

[Heeta]

Awesome! spewin no elbows but should be fireworks

[Gospeljohn]

Just posted this on the Championi of Champions 2 thread, but relevant to here:

Have you seen the fight card on the other site???

From the reading on that site, looks like Muay Thai to me. Would that mean it includes elbows?

Here are the Aussie fights. The full card is on that K1 site.

2. WMC 70 Kg World MuayThai Title - John Wayne Parr (Australia) vs Buakaw Por Pramuk (Thailand)

3. WMC World HeavyWeight MuayThai Title - Paul Slowinksi (Australia) vs Patrice Quatterson (France)

7. WMC 76 Kg World MuayThai Title - Rayen Simon (Holland) vs Eugene "Boom Boom" Ekkelboom (Australia)

10. WMC 93 Kg World MuayThai Title and UN Cup - Nathan "Carnage" Corbett (Australia) vs Tyrone Spong (Holland)

Wouldn't Muay Thai imply that elbows are allowed? (I am newer to this sports than most of you, but asumed it means FTR.

[scottya]

JWP Vs Buakaw what title is it for it cant be for a world title
Unless there going up to 72.5kgs or its not for the world title

Preacher has first shot at the 69.8kgs WMC world title since he holds the interm (sp) title still ?

[Gospeljohn]

Thanks for the info MrMT.

Really hope someone gets this on pay tv or dvd somewhere, will be an awesome show to see.
Go Carnage.

[MrMT]

Hey John.
WMC is the sanctioning body and generally most of their fights are FTR but there can be exceptions to these rules. If both fighters agree on no elbows, then it can go ahead at these rules but still be be sanctioned by WMC. This is just one of those fights(Carnage V Spong)where you just take it as it comes. This has been a long time coming and good on Carnage for being the bigger man and taking the fight at heavier than his natural fight weight and no elbows. He is a class act and can take this without elbows.

With this lineup, Jamaica is definately one spoilt place to be hosting this. Some rasta has plenty of dough to afford this show. Would have to be the biggest MT show on earth so far.

[Imsta]

great news!

[Makaba]

WooooHooooooo! What a show.

[kathy]

Gonna be a great fight that's for sure!

[gvmartialarts]

Definitely good on Carnage for taking this fight, and I agree he has everything to beat Spong without his famous elbows. Carnage is sharp with his boxing and kicks, and his step-up knees are great. Awesome show, awesome line-up.

[ChrisQ]

Not sure you could have a better lineup of title fights if you tried.

[Bushi]

Isn't there another Aussie on the card, one Angie Parr v Julie Kitchen ???

Good luck to the Aussies, going to be HUGE....

There was also a rumour of Yod v Steve Wakeling just to wet a few more appetites...

[Gospeljohn]

quote:Originally posted by Bushi

Isn't there another Aussie on the card, one Angie Parr v Julie Kitchen ???

Good luck to the Aussies, going to be HUGE....

There was also a rumour of Yod v Steve Wakeling just to wet a few more appetites...

Its no rumour . . . fact.

[sarsha]

I'd say after the last few loss's bruce's has had that he wouldn't be first in line for a world title anymore...

Good luck to JWP and Ang!!!

[imported_n/a]

Carnage v Spong IS NO ELBOWS. Frikken sook wouldnt fight him with elbows, or at his weight. Carnage had to do the compromising to get this fight on. He knew if he did this then Spong couldnt say no this time.
and to the w@nkers bagging him on here. Go Fvck Yourselves.


The return to the ring of Aussie superstar Angie Parr. She fights world renowned Julie Kitchen.

live broadcast at www.ISTREAMYOUSTREAM.com

[Voice]

hey Russ I just clicked the link you posted. Seems a no-brainer to watch this great show live especially with so many Aussies fighting the world's best. What do people need to do to pick up this stream? Cost?

[Gospeljohn]

quote:Originally posted by Voice

hey Russ I just clicked the link you posted. Seems a no-brainer to watch this great show live especially with so many Aussies fighting the world's best. What do people need to do to pick up this stream? Cost?


Yes, I would be interested to know how to do this also. Help anyone please???
This fight (fightnight) would be as highly sought after as any I know of, maybe PPV or other options to view it or get on DVD???? Anyone know of other viewing options available?

[imported_n/a]

Voice, register at the site and you will be able to PPV. Last time i think it cost around $40 aud. They put the details up in the SHOP section about a month out.


Stu, odd that you deemed it necessary to respond to that line.

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by Russ

Carnage v Spong IS NO ELBOWS. Frikken sook wouldnt fight him with elbows, or at his weight.


so what ?

why does it have to be with elbows and at Carnages weight ?

Spong is the bigger name and draw card

[kirkg]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

so what ?

why does it have to be with elbows and at Carnages weight ?

Spong is the bigger name and draw card


I personally don't know why an experienced Muay Thai practitioner would NOT fight with elbows but if that's what it takes to get the fight on...

[Dynamite Drew]

Spong hasnt fought with elbows for a long time

[Aaden]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

quote:Originally posted by Russ

Carnage v Spong IS NO ELBOWS. Frikken sook wouldnt fight him with elbows, or at his weight.


so what ?

why does it have to be with elbows and at Carnages weight ?

Spong is the bigger name and draw card


Puts to bed the theory that Nathan is inflexible in order to dodge quality opponents - Not his rules, weight or location - coupled with his past winner takes all offer I can't see how anyone can now question his cred. I reckon you should shut your pie hole on this one Drew at least until there's a result.

[wildaction]

quote:Originally posted by Russ

Voice, register at the site and you will be able to PPV. Last time i think it cost around $40 aud. They put the details up in the SHOP section about a month out.


Stu, odd that you deemed it necessary to respond to that line.

I responded to the line simply because I don't see anyone bagging Nathan on here .....(unless you want to include Drew).

Like I said.....we all just want to see the guy fight better opponents that's all, I'm a Carnage fan, but I want to see how good the guy is. I understand you are friend etc so your own opinion is always going be a little biased ...that's fair enough.

At the ned of the day, it looks like the comments / views and opinions of a lot of fight fans HAS maybe had an affect .....as we will now see Nathan v Spong. (Win , lose or draw I think the fight will do Nathan the world of good).

Stu.

[kingwaa]

man..
ppl whinged that this fight was probably not going to happen,
now that it is happening, ppl are still whinging.

tuff crowd

[auz]

hey russ what site do you register at to watch the fights?

[imported_n/a]

I hope people will now realise, (as I have been telling you, as Nathan has been saying in interviews) it is not Carnage that was ducking. He chased and chased Spong, only to get hit with excuse after excuse.

[humble]

I'm not a Carnage nuthugger, if people want to call us fans that and I certainly thought Sponge would be a worthy opponent. But after watching him in K1 I don't rate him as highly as I did at his new weight.

I think Nathan will demolish him quite easily, elbows or not.

Don't forget Nathans amazing punching power, speed and accuracy of his hands.

Way too quick and powerful imo.

Go Carnage!

[SPADA]

quote:WMC 93 Kg World MuayThai Title and UN Cup - Nathan "Carnage" Corbett (Australia) vs Tyrone Spong (Holland)


Well I am confused how this is for a WMC Muaythai world title... and no Elbows ???

can someone clear this up ??

Can't help but think this has a Stan " the man " vs Dennis Alexio feel to it.
Stan chased that fight for ages and bowed to different demands from the Alexio camp.
Looks like the Carnage has had to do something similar to finally get a crack at the biggest name in his weight division.

Elbows or no elbows .. this fight will be a cracker !!!

cheers Spada

[wildaction]

[quote]Originally posted by Russ



I hope people will now realise, (as I have been telling you, as Nathan has been saying in interviews) it is not Carnage that was ducking. He chased and chased Spong, only to get hit with excuse after excuse.

I thought it was always down to the $$$$ ....at least thats what we hear alot of on here (nothing to do with Nathan ducking anyone).

Do we think Nathan can still win without elbows ?????

Stu.

[imported_n/a]

yes, that was one of his excuses. then Carnage said winner take all then. Still Spong ducked and put out interview saying carnage wont fight him.

[LOWKICK87]

no elbows wtf? I thought spong was a thaiboxer.

[scottya]

Some place have laws to stop fighter for the use of elbows

But lucky for us if you want to fight for a title in AUS its elbows or no title now

Stu
After seen Nathan on the weekend he dosent need his elbows he just picks the other fighters body apart
Nathan last few stopages have come from other blows then the use of his elbows

[samuaythai]

Glad this is happening go the Carnage.

[Voice]

I hope Nathan can beef up to the 93kg limit so there is no weight given away.
Imagine if he KO's Spong and the headline this will make on the K-1 scene, esp with this fight being mod-thai. There could be an offer for a K-1 HW (under 100kgs) appearance.
This is going to be brutal over 5 rounds.

I'd love for Mainevent to get a hold of this promotion...rarely will you see such a stacked lineup and even rarer will you see so many Aussies involved.

[samuaythai]

quote:

I'd love for Mainevent to get a hold of this promotion...rarely will you see such a stacked lineup and even rarer will you see so many Aussies involved.


Agree Voice Mainevent should be all over this cmon Shiv pull some strings mate lets get this happening Carnage,JWP,Slowinski etc im sure you would love to get a spot commentating in Jamaica;):D.

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by wildaction

I responded to the line simply because I don't see anyone bagging Nathan on here .....(unless you want to include Drew).



im not bagging Carnage at all, never said anything bad about his fighting ability/skills, just the choice and quality of his opponents

[Dynamite Drew]

i really would like to see Carnage win , it would be a huge win for him and make him very well known to the rest of the world besides australasia

[Dynamite Drew]

JWP vs Baukaw under FTR , now thats an awesome match up

i really would love to see this fight live

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

JWP vs Baukaw under FTR , now thats an awesome match up

i really would love to see this fight live

who do you think will win that one Drew?

[Bushi]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

JWP vs Baukaw under FTR , now thats an awesome match up

i really would love to see this fight live
It's gunna cost you $40..;)

This card IMHO is the best anywhere, ever for MT. better than the 1st show they did...

[Wrecka]

The matchmaker for this show (Clifton Brown) will be on the gold coast in a couple of days to sort out the finer details, i'll do my best to keep you guy's up to date.

[0888]

Man im a huge fan of both these guys ! and ive been waiting for this one for a long time fark if I had the spare cash id fly over to Jamaica to see this and the beatiful Jamaican hunnies hahaha

[kenmike]

In Holland they are not fighting with elbows (most of the time)
Not aloud officially.
Spong hasn't got experience enough to fight with elbows!

[Mojoman]

Man, we thought this would never happen. Thats awesome news. Unfortunately the advantage seems to be with Spong now that it's a modified Thai fight. I hope the Ref is lenient in the grapple. Spong can be dangerous @ range..he's pretty explosive and if Carnage gets caught it could be lights out. Big ups to Carnage for taking the fight @ a heavier weight and not with his preferred rules.

Buakaw vs JWP is going to be a cracker. JWP to take a UD against Buakaw..hands too strong.

[Dynamite Drew]

JWP by KO

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by Bushi

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

JWP vs Baukaw under FTR , now thats an awesome match up

i really would love to see this fight live
It's gunna cost you $40..;)

This card IMHO is the best anywhere, ever for MT. better than the 1st show they did...


i meant live as actually being there in Jamaca

it wont cost me $40 either to watch it live [^]

[Bushi]

Yes we know DD, we ALL know you'll find an internet stream to watch it...do you pay for your internet ??[:o)]

JWP v Baukaw will be a cracker, and CARNAGE will BRING ON THE CARNAGE to Spong...then stand over him when he's out on the canvas...[}:)]

[Dynamite Drew]

LOL Bushi

yeah , i pay for my internet , get free landline calls anywhere in aust included

[Dynamite Drew]

Carnage is getting some decent write ups and props on a dutch forum

but in their poll 88% pick Spong for win

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by kenmike

In Holland they are not fighting with elbows (most of the time)
Not aloud officially.


from what i understand , elbows are allowed in Holland but only in "A class" fights

[Dynamite Drew]

i read on one forum something that summed this up perfectly ......

Tyrone and Nathan have collectively whipped out there competition in their regions. Neither really have challenges and most often they stop their opposition as well as beat them.

Tyrone cleaned out the 77kg division when it was the strongest in the world. Those men are tops in the world on his side of the planet. He stopped the majority of the group and his skill appeared only to be a shadow of what he could really do.

Nathan has also reigned supreme in his part of the world.He stopped all of these fighters and remains the unchallenged king in his part of the world.

The fans of the Oceania area probably see it easy for Carnage, while Europe has their guy in Tyrone.

[Wrecka]

Thanks to toggsy again for The Web Show report, rock on! It's always a great insight to what goes on before a fight.Great interveiw with Manue, what a fantastic attitude he had about fighting. I wonder will his name show up in the who's hot and who's not section of IK?
Ps who ever wrote that article should be ashamed of themselves, Tony Angelov has more heart than the pen pusher who wrote that. At least he had the balls to take on Carnage front and centre and put his name to it!!!!!

[Wrecka]

Att; DD What forums have you been reading? I'm a IK devotee but would love to read what our European brothers have got to say about this match up. Are you able to drop some links in here?

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by Wrecka

Att; DD What forums have you been reading? I'm a IK devotee but would love to read what our European brothers have got to say about this match up. Are you able to drop some links in here?

careful getting involved in that viper's nest Richard...Drew will have you bouncing your head off the walls reaching for medication. He has broken down the very best of us so take heed.;)

[Voice]

While we have your attention Wrecka...
What will Nathan's gameplan be for Spong, where does he identify weaknesses and is he expecting this to be his biggest challenge yet?
(don't worry, Drew said no-one in the Spong camp reads much of what us Oceania people say).

[imported_n/a]

yeah he'l tell you. :)

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by Wrecka

Att; DD What forums have you been reading? I'm a IK devotee but would love to read what our European brothers have got to say about this match up. Are you able to drop some links in here?


check ya email Wrecka

[Voice]

don't you go soft on us Russ!![:X]

[ASSASSIN]

Not tryin to stir anything here, or be a smart ass, but does anyone think that if it was Tyrone Spong that refused to fight with Elbows, that it is basically an admission that he doesn't feel comfortable about versing Nathan or think he can win against Nathan under Full Thai rules?
It's abit unusual for a someone that says he's a Muay Thai fighter to not all of the sudden want to fight with Elbows?

[Voice]

it could be that and it could also be that he has made a commitment to focus on K-1 and is now not training with full grapple and elbows. This fight couldn't occur without the grapple but could without elbows. I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle if I can try to remain objective.

[Hellfighter]

Spong has said that he doesn't train elbows because he doesn't fight with them... he won a "world title" against a thai that has been a padholder for 10yrs, so I don't think he's doing himself any favours by not stepping up and fighting under the rules of the art he likes to say he represents

[Voice]

as mentioned earlier it is just staggering that a WMC world title can be fought without elbows. I remember we used to bag a few yrs back the WMTA titles that locals were picking up under mod thai. Didn't think this would happen with the WMC, would this be a first?

[parviz]

quote:Originally posted by Hellfighter

Spong has said that he doesn't train elbows because he doesn't fight with them... he won a "world title" against a thai that has been a padholder for 10yrs, so I don't think he's doing himself any favours by not stepping up and fighting under the rules of the art he likes to say he represents


[B)] I dont think Spong aint going to fight with elbows just bcz he doesnt know how to use them LOL . He started competing in K-1 and as far as i know they fight with no elbows there :( So maybe he just didnt train elbows or something !?

http://www.fightmag.net/?p=2095

Anyways it's gonna be a sick fight night concerning to the fight card atm. The fight card is a subject to change , so we never know..;)

[Hellfighter]

Spong made his comment during one of the SLAMM! events

[Hot Sizzle]

I know it's happened in the WBC before but not sure about the WMC. Yod vs Farids 1st fight for the World Title was without elbows but that was because the country didn't allow it.

Im a fan of both but i just think Carnage (even though i havn't seen him for a long long time) will KO Spong. 3 out of 4 or 5 of Spongs losses have come via KO.

[parviz]

true !! umm have a look how Spong fought with NO elbows 2 years ago versus one of the strongest middleweights Shakuta.

I just got this video, nowhere else online i could find it.

http://www.fightmag.net/?p=2104

Of course Spong was faster cause he was not that heavy.. but still look at the power even he was 78 kilos...

Carnage is awesome as well !! I watched his vids highlights , Not too many ppl heard of him in Europe i think.. I think thats gonna be a very nice surprise from Australia with love !! ha ha ha ha Jamaica will be amazeddddd !

[Wrecka]

Att: Voice,
No game plan for Spong yet as we are still trying for another fight in May for Carnage.(the old 1 fight at a time thing!!!)
But i'm interested to know what everyone out there thinks is a good game plan for us too work on!!!!

[MichaelSchiavello]

Im a fan of both but i just think Carnage (even though i havn't seen him for a long long time) will KO Spong. 3 out of 4 or 5 of Spongs losses have come via KO.
[/quote]


Spong has only been beaten four times in 87 fights. He was knocked out once by Zeyada (on Spong's debut fight in 2002); once by Saki last weekend which I was at in Tokyo. The other loss to Zeyada by stoppage of referee was through injury. The other loss was a decision in shootboxing.

Carnage has been beaten 2 times in 46 fights both by knockout to Slowinski and Alex Roberts.

Gotta say I enjoyed watching both guys fight within a week of each other in two different countries.

"The Voice" Michael Schiavello

[Gospeljohn]

Hello MichaelSchiavello,

Any chance that this event could be picked up by Foxsports, Fueltv or Main Event????

[NICS]

pretty sure slowinski beat corbett on points. Seems like everyone has changed there story about who will win now. Is any one keen to put a wager on this i want carnage 100%. once this fight is done no one will ever doubt he is the best fighter in the world at his weight again. Carnage is the wrecking machine.

[MichaelSchiavello]

My apologies, of course, it was a decision loss to Paul.

Good pic up NICS.

"The Voice" Michael Schiavello

[spano]

NICS once nathan beats spong he wont only prove his the best at 86kg he will be at 93 once he wins that world title! im backin nathan 100% he came back so strong after his knockdown to win via leg kicks! il be very surprised id spong wins this! go the CARNAGE!!

[MrMT]

If Carnage stays healthy and free from any sickness etc, then I tip him to win quite comfortably. The man has skill and blistering speed and will be training hard for this one. Go Carnage.

[Voice]

If Carnage beats Spong I will almost guarantee the K-1 will be knocking on his door for the HW class. This Spong fight may be the biggest fight of his career with the biggest opportunities.

[Dynamite Drew]

Voice

after Carnage won K-1 Scandavia , nothing happened

why do you think if he beats Spong things will change ?

most of the guys in K-1 HW are around 95-98kg and Carnage has said he cant get that heavy

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

Voice

after Carnage won K-1 Scandavia , nothing happened

why do you think if he beats Spong things will change ?

most of the guys in K-1 HW are around 95-98kg and Carnage has said he cant get that heavy

DD, it isn't true that 'nothing happened'...I think on the forum back then it was mentioned he decided not to pursue the K-1 further due to the weight increase remaining an issue.
What's changed then?
Spong looks like becoming a 'name' in the K-1 U100's and I just suspect a victory here will be high profile and may possibly give Carnage food for thought about this whole issue of trying to gain a division, especially if the offer to fight the likes of Melvin, Ruslan etc is made.
Perhaps Wrecka can share his opinion but this is my view.

[Dynamite Drew]

Voice

you just repeated what i said ....


quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew
most of the guys in K-1 HW are around 95-98kg and Carnage has said he cant get that heavy


quote:Originally posted by Voice
I think on the forum back then it was mentioned he decided not to pursue the K-1 further due to the weight increase remaining an issue.


this is what i mean about what has changed ?

sure , he has increased from 86 to 92 , so now going up to 95-98 no longer an issue ?

[Voice]

well with a little more financial incentive and the offer to fight in a bigger league perhaps he will make the decision to try to beef up to that division. Nathan has never said it is impossible to do so but rather that it wasn't his choice. He doesn't hold additional weight easily but perhaps with a different diet and training regime, anything is possible. That's why I was interested to hear what Richard has to say about that idea. Granted we are putting the cart before the horse a little here and Carnage needs to spank Spong first.

[Dynamite Drew]

its all good Voice

just a good healthy discussion

actually , seems odd tho, no slurs or abuse ........ is this allowed ? [:o)]

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

actually , seems odd tho, no slurs or abuse ........ is this allowed ? [:o)]

have I ever abused you personally Drew (as opposed to arguing against your view)?:D

[Dynamite Drew]

Voice

I meant in general , not just between us

it seems so many on here take things so personal and thats when the slurs/abuse comes

[Hironaka]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelSchiavello
The other loss was a decision in shootboxing.


Goto by Northern Lights suplex ya'll!

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by Dynamite Drew

Voice

I meant in general , not just between us

it seems so many on here take things so personal and thats when the slurs/abuse comes

everyone on here isn't as nice as I am Drew!:D;)

[imported_n/a]

and most of us cant be bothered with you anymore.

[Dynamite Drew]

haha Voice :D

[MrMT]

I think if Carnage can match it and possibly spank spong, it may change his whole outlook towards the whole weight gain issue and persue K-1 possibly. He will surely get the bigger purses and offers if he wins. The smart move will be to fight K-1 and win or lose, he will be in a class above his current and have better opponents. Isn't this what fighters want..to fight the best in the world and get paid well to do it, win/lose or draw.

It's about time we see Carnage step up in weight. He will know he can handle the weight difference after this fight with Spong *cross my fingers* will give him the focus to fight this class/weight full time.

[wildaction]

quote:Originally posted by MrMT

I think if Carnage can match it and possibly spank spong, it may change his whole outlook towards the whole weight gain issue and persue K-1 possibly. He will surely get the bigger purses and offers if he wins. The smart move will be to fight K-1 and win or lose, he will be in a class above his current and have better opponents. Isn't this what fighters want..to fight the best in the world and get paid well to do it, win/lose or draw.

It's about time we see Carnage step up in weight. He will know he can handle the weight difference after this fight with Spong *cross my fingers* will give him the focus to fight this class/weight full time.


This is what I'm really hoping for....Nathan out taking on the best and hopefully kicking their arses.

Stu.

[supermario]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Carnage is 184cm tall, yeah? He's ripped to shreds, but his frame isn't that big, he seems slender, so I can understand why packing on the pounds would be a difficult transition. I hope he smashes Spong and then smashes Manhoeff. K-1 beckons, go Carnage!!

[Hellfighter]

how will Carnage fighting at 93kgs "only prove he's the best at 86kgs"?

[dekker]

I think the main decisive things to look for here are this year Tyrone has had 2 or 3 fights at 93+kg and Carnage only 1, Tyrones opponets(at 90+kg) far better and he will be fighting again next month, without the elbows it slightly favours Tyrone who switch hits and has very good knees, Nathan has worked on his low kicks and they are a very effective weapon for him, this will be a great fight and we all know that if there are no elbows the payday must be great, cant wait to see this quality show!

[Dynamite Drew]

quote:Originally posted by Hellfighter

how will Carnage fighting at 93kgs "only prove he's the best at 86kgs"?


maybe they preparing for a Spong win and this will be the reasoning - he best at 86 not 93