Where is this sport going?

[Koshy]

Its a question that every lover of kickboxing has asked themselves at one stage. I often sit back and and wonder whether Kickboxing will ever really become a legitimate sport that is followed on a world scale. Now I know alot of die hard fans much like myself will be reading this and thinking - we have K1 which is huge, and we have the household name Tarik Solak,- but what else is there. My feeling is that in terms of Australian kickboxing we have reached a wall which we cant seem to climb over. For the last few years, and especially this year kickboxing and Mauy thai have been left out in the cold. I remember back to the days when fighters were being promoted on the local morning TV show, or getting the odd spot on the sports broadcast. Now think about this, when is the last time you saw an event televised eg - results on Sportstonight or promoted on free to air TV. We seem to be getting less and lesss coverage on foxtel, and to add to that the bigger shows in Australia such as Tariks lack depth to say the least. I just want to know what others think about our sport, where are we going to be in five years?

[JANER]

If boxing cant get free to air shows on prime time or thereabout, how can kickboxing ever get a plug?
Kostya Tszyu is arguably among the top 5 BEST Boxers in the whole world, yet channel 7 replayed in at 11:30pm. It was potentially the best event ever to happen in Australia. Aprt from what eventuated doesnt matter, the fight was huge in a boxing scale as all three belts were on the line. However it did get alot of pages in the Herald Sun.

K1 has great market potential, other than k1, kickboxing is well behind boxing. And we all know were boxing is...

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"Seriously, What the HELL did you expect?"

[BULLET]

I actually read the same question on the axkickboxing site. I agree totally. k1 is huge. k1 max is huge. everyone else is simply a nobody in the sport. Amatuers get no coverage. You dont read about it in the papares, hear about it anywhere else but here on the net or at the gym, and there is no other avenues for kickboxing or muay thai to be publicised because quite simply: NO ONE WANTS TO!!!

Half the fights on tv are ****! Bull S.HIT politics rule this sport, and there is no world class action anywhere. Even if there is we dont hear about it hear in oz. but i guess it doesnt matter because every freakin country has a "world" champion.

[Koshy]

Thats my point Bullet. the sport for the last few years has been controlled by hte big head honcho Tarik and the rest of his lackies. I love to watch the sport and go to the events but the standard of the foxtel shows is shocking. Compare the fightnight between Ozkan and Watt, other than that fight what else was there to watch and that fight was ****house as well.

[JANER]

The Ozkan V Watt undercard I better not comment as my words offend many, but really we need more talent!!

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"Seriously, What the HELL did you expect?"

[BULLET]

It sucks to sit back and watch some of these monkeys who get to fight on foxtel, just how s.hit they are. Guys who are 3rd class fighters that are fighting on tv and just suck.

[Koshy]

Some of the fights are of such a shocking standard that you cant keep a non-kickboxing fan interested long enough to enjoy the sport for what it is. Imagine if they had shown the recent NTG fights, all of those were top fights from go to woe. The TV audience would have loved it. Also any of those guys would have creamed every guy on the Tarik undercard. It not what you know but who you know.

[BULLET]

honestly, did you watch the show on last nite fox - amirs show???

the first couple of fights were the worst performances i have ever seen in my life. no offence to mohammed the ref, but he is a joke. and secondly, how embarrassing is it to watch some of these fighters - especially the heavier boys, who cant even fight a 3 round fight without falling all over the place.

it is embarrasing and a disgrace to the sport. we have all these kickboxers challenging the boxing world saying "HOOHAA LOOK AT US" but come to think of it, i hope they watched some of the perofrmances last night just to see how s.hit they were.

i know people who literally turn the channel half way through

[Koshy]

My old man is a boxing fan so I thought it would be good to try and get him into the Kickboxing\Mauy thai. He lasted the first two fights and could not be stapled to the chair to watch anymore. You could have gone to any local amatuer boxing night and seen twenty fights between sixteen year old boys that would have been ten times as entertaining, and more skillfull. TV fights should be for the cream of the crop only, or at least some good up and comers, it is the chance to promote the sport to people who normally wouldn't watch the sport. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

[BULLET]

exactly, and when you have foxtel only giving out 8 spots during the year - with tarik taking 4 of them, it is embarrassing to see that this is all we have to offer - 3rd grade kickboxing.

very bad for the sport in the public eye.

[shacols]

why get pissed at the amatuer fighters or monkeys because the promoter of the show they are on has managed to get the fights on fox.
should they pull out.i wouldnt.
ive seen some worse fights bullet,evein shows that youve been on.
look mate dont get me wrong,im a fan of your bullet aswell as pauls,when he was fighting,ans with all that he is accomplishing now.
i ve just seen people trashing the fighters on this card on ax aswell as here.i thought it was a good night.reinhardt and sonne,shane and cedric,and the first fight,sure they were pretty unfit,but they were debs,they still tried to fight though.

[paul c]

Over the past 4 years I've been to dozens of shows, and I personally think that whomever gets the spotlight, that the same criticisms would arise.

Re amateur boxing. I think that koshy is somewhat right. But I also think it's a lot easier for someone new in kickboxing to look more unco than someone new to boxing. I don't now why, but I'm guessing it has something to do with new fighters being wary of fight distance. It being different in that you can be KO'd by a kick. I think that's why we more often see a new kickboxer 'windmilling' more often than we do a boxer. I do agree though that television time should be for the cream of the crop. But is this likely to happen with so many gyms refusing to work with each other.

Re Fox,
Guys, I remember during the first 3 months of last year, I was ****ting myself thinking Fox must have dropped kickboxing. They didn't really get the ball rolling untill April last year either. I don't think we're going to get less kickboxing this year. I believe I read somewhere, possibly in Janers post when he had contacted Fox, that they were going to be putting 12 local shows on this year. I think it said 6 Solak shows and 6 from other promoters. Maybe Michael can correct me If I've got this wrong.

Guys, we can complain all we like. The reality is that Fox is going to stay interested in Tarik because of his production quality. It outshines everyone elses by 10 - 1. Nothing is going to change re fox and other promoters getting a shot untill this improves with other promoters. I don't know if you guys noticed the lighting last night. It may not be as obvious to people not interested in lighting and optics, but man, it wasn't a quarter as good as Solaks. The lighting was way too low to ring without enough spread. Shadows all over the fighters when they step out of center ring. This makes the whole atmoshpere of a show look second class. And it's not possible for it to be any better in a venue with a ceiling so low. But, last nights lighting was super duper superb compared to what I've seen at some shows.

Check out the American Boxing shows, and Solak's productions are on Parr easily. Vukovic and Scida are spending more money on their lighting ever single show. I can verify this with my stupid little lightmeter. 2 years ago I was unable to shoot their shows digitally because they had 1/16th the lighting power of Solak. They are now up to 75% of Solak lighting.

Complaining about who's fighting on fox.
Guys, you can't blame Solak for this alone. You guys have said yourself that politics is to blame. Politics takes at least two parties and a hell of a lot of diplomacy. So, if you want to be on Fox, get your trainers to get in touch with the promoters whom are getting the airtime. I know this isn't as good as your own Promoter getting the airtime, but it's the next best thing, and you'll be getting the exposure and becoming a hell of a lot more popular. If your a good fighter, then I'm sure the promoter will try and do something for you. Because you guys are, what they are selling. They'd be stupid to knock you back if you are better than what they've got.

[JKLA]

True Paul, I've noticed on Tariks shows he says that he never knocks back a challenge. People say how strong and how wonderful to watch the Queensland and WA fighters are, how come they dont get their trainers to contact these promoters. I know their may be arguement that Qld fighters don't trust Melbourne or Sydney judging, but thats just an exscuse, if they are so good it wont even have to come down to the judges. Also with K1 Max, Kelly Seifs Judgement Day, Scida Lucy & Vukovics shows gettin airtime, I am sure Qldrs and WA fighters can get a spot to fight. But it's not happening, why? If someone knows more could they explain to me, cause I constantly read posts saying how world class the QSL and WA fighters, but they dont get airtime.

[BULLET]

Sorry Paul you've brought me down to reality i guess in some of the things you've mentioned. i wasn't really agnry at the fighters personally because i know the hard work that goes into training. you have brought up some interesting facts there.

[JANER]

Paul and JKLA, I second your opinions.

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"Seriously, What the HELL did you expect?"

[paul c]

I want you guys to consider this hypothetical situation.

A new promoter genius comes along.
His name is Paul Cavka.
On his first show he manages to put on,


Hunt Vs Graham
Parr Vs Dawson
Plus a pretty average undercard that he doesn't even make public.
But he does have a dozen breathtaking cardgirls to occupy the 'half assed' fan during round breaks. And Paul Cavka somehow has managed to pull of a lighting look and feel just short of American and Japanese PPV evvents. The event has cost so much that this new promoter is risking every single cent that could be made out of the show, but his hoping for better things down the line.

Ok, this is my first show, and it does pretty bloody well.
How long do you think FOX would ignore this new promoter?

Possibly untill the home spectator becomes friggen Hostile and Starts demanding it.


Solak does this ever single show just about.
No not Mark Hunt, But Ozkan and Zam are no popularity competition loosers.




Edited by - paul c on 26 Apr 2003 18:41:42

[Steve]

Guys,

I have heard, that Foxtel go on the recommendations (of which show to air) of 2 people: Michael Schiavello & Mark Castagnini!
Michael & Hammer, I know you guys sometimes post on here - can you please let us know the truth.
If it is not, my apologies - however I did hear it a couple of times from reputable people: who weren't as, I am not being antagonistic!
Please Michael, can you clarify this?

Regards,

Steve

[The Rhino]

Back a few years fighters used to have to elevate through Divisions and Ratings...it was fun...based on exactly how many fights a guy had a fight fan could track fighters and watch their progression.

That meant that promoters put on fight cards specific to fight Level/Standard and you got what you paid for. Level 1 (Amatuers) through to Level 5 (Professionals)...True titles were won or lost and it made more sense (my opinion) to the fight fans, because guys truly earned their spots. There was also alot more interclub rivalries.

Most of the fights were Muay Thai...as well as Kickboxing and technique was probably more pleasing to watch.

I personally like to watch Queensland fights...much more pure technique rather than the brawling style we see in Victoria. Even NSW has great technique even though guys have to wear shin pads and can only wear shin pads - just better kicking techniques etc. A lot of Victorian fighters, not all of them seem to just rush in without thought or strategy - mainly the heavyweights...who don't seem to be prepared as well as they used to be.

Probably this is accounted for by the tournament style aspect of kickboxing now...better for Foxtel because it kind of tells a quick story for the night, rather than over a year or few years - ie. watching a guy start and rise to championship status. It is probably the effect of the over use of titles that took place a few years back to - many shows were promoted based on titles and people got sick of that looking to tournaments as way of being better entertained.