Dave Hedgecock

[Zambo Rambo]

I just like to start by saying he would have to be one of the worst referees ever seen in Kickboxing history!

Although Zambidis won the fight against Dawson, Hedgecock was so pathetic that it's happened too many times when Zambidis fights in Australia!

If you take a look some of the old fights Zambidis Vs Ozkan -Zambidis Vs Behic you will see how bad he is as a referee.

Last Sunday at the weigh in and rules overview, Dr Peter Lewis and Tarik were explaining the so called grapple, clench whatever it may be, and between them they still couldn't come to a conclusion.

Wouldn't you think that the Main Event referee (Dave Hedgecock) would be there to explain the rules to all the fighters, trainers and public?

The A1 rules state: http://www.solak.com.au/rules.cfm

5 Fouls

5.1 Two warnings lead to a points penalty. Depending on severity referee may go straight to points deduction or if appropriate a disqualification.

5.2 Three point deductions in one round is an automatic disqualification.

Fouls are:

» Neck grappling
» Groin strikes
» Continual holding or clinching

These happened continuously and up until round 4 when Hedgecock decided to have a word to Dawson!

The bell had gone to finish round 2 and Dawson kept pounding away into Zambidis while Zambidis was just standind there holding his gloves up! Pffftt WTF?

All i can say is Dave Hedgecock time to retire! [V]

[John K]

I agree the refereeing was absolutely horrible. Dawson was getting away with everything, low blowes, push/sweeps, flagrant blows after the bell and the neck grappling which I thought on the night seemed to contradict what I understood of A-1 rules. Zambidis understood the rules because he looked at the ref constantly as if to say "are you going to warn this guy?"
The refereeing was a complete mess, thankfully the fight was still superb, both are world class performers and Zambidis earnt a well deserved decision.

[Imsta]

on that night I wasn't too impress with the referees, every referees had their own rules. Some say you can't grab and some say you can grab.

Maybe we should have another new rules M-1 rules, unlimited grappling. ;)

[John K]

Also I think it's worth pointing out that had it been Zambidis who fouled the way Dawson did on Sunday without getting so much as a warning, then a lot of people here would claim Zambidis was getting favours.

[Hellfighter]

I liked when Scott Bannon fought Gurkan and Dave broke the fight as it went into the grapple and Scott said, "awwww, f#ck off, Dave!" and all Dave replied was, "no Scott, I won't f#ck off mate, now fight!"... awesome moment

when John 'Psycho' Myles (R.I.P.) fought Prince Amir, he was warned twice by Dave for headbutting in the clinch... in (I think) round 4 he threw a pissy little elbow that Amir was horrified about and Dave disqualified Psycho and stated, "you've been warned twice now for elbows, that's it, it's over"... needless to say Psycho wasn't impressed

[wildaction]

I'm glad someone brought this up....as I stated on another thread I was very disappointed by Dave's refereeing on Monday night in the main event fight , he allowed Daniel to get away with murder in there ( low blows ...pushing & tripping...punching after the bell...continual holding & grappling), I've never seen Dave be so lenient with a fighter before ...it really suprised me as he is usually a hard ass when it comes to controlling things in centre ring.

Stu.

[imported_n/a]

All too easy to blame the ref but a couple of points;

- As you state Zambo Rambo Tarik and Dr Lewis between them could not agree on the rules (what the doctor has to do with the rules I have no idea). It is not up to the referee to attend a weigh in to explain the rules for the promotion - especially when those rules are only used by that promoter. When confusion starts at the top then that is where the blame lies.


- Pay peanuts get monkeys. Ref's / judges are professionals are should be paid accordingly. When you do not pay then you do not get quality. Dave has been a legend of the sport and for quite a long time has focussed on boxing - quite a different set of rules.

- These rules have been implemented to even the playing field for kickboxers and avoid infringement on K-1. When this is the basis of formulation and you keep putting thai fighters on then fouling is going to result.

[Bushi]

For once I agree 110% with you Pira..;)

[Voice]

you`re overlooking that little disclaimer in the Solak A1 rules fine print...`all rules open to Promoter discretion on the night`.
It`s right next to the `Promoter reserves the3 right not to pay $1,000,000 for the A1 world cup` disclaimer.

[johnny_619]

Good points all round.

Dawson did strike Mike twice in the groin! Apparently thats an automatic point off. He did continually hit Mike after the bell in round 2. The sweep is an illegal move under the rule, hedgecock did warn but never followed through.

[wildaction]

Pira...

Their are many thai fighters who fight under these A1 rules worlwide with no problem at ....low blows and punching after the bell are illigal in ANY form of the fight game.

Everyone loves Dave including me he has refereed one of my fights in the past) but on Monday night I think a lot of people were suprised at the leniency he showed towards Daniel during the fight.

Stu.

[wildaction]

Bushi (aka...mr muay thai)

of course you agree with Pira ;) lol

Stu.

[Bushi]

Zambo,

You forgot a few things when copying from the A1 website..

Fouls are..

Fouls are:
» Head butts
» Elbows or knees (except in A1 QLD where you have A1 "with elbows" and or A1 Melbourne when obviously SOME FORM of grapple was considered)
» Wrestling, throwing, submission techniques, choking, use of thumb and biting.
» Attacking while opponent is down or the referee is separating.
» Use of offensive language.
» Forcing opponent out of the ring.
» Intentionally leaving the ring.
» Neck grappling.
» Groin strikes.
» Stalling
» Continual holding or clinching
» Spitting out of mouthguard
» Deliberately falling to the ground
» Holding the leg

And what about...

5.3 If the fighter leaves the ring of his own volition a count will also be applied. If the fighter has not re-entered the ring by the count of 10 the fighter will be deemed counted out. This is considered a TKO loss (hmmm, obviously when Gurkan strangled his opponent who "left the ring" this wasn't an A1 promotion..)[}:)] call this the Tibor rule ?

And this...

6 Disqualification
The referee may disqualify or deduct points under the following:

» A fighter does not obey the referee.
» Late for match. Poor manners
» A cornerman has entered the ring or touched a fighter during a round.
» The referee determines the fighter does not have the will to fight.
» Fouling as detailed above.

8 Objections
Objections to decisions can only be made in writing to A1 Management up to 2 weeks after the event. - Shows over, evryone go home..

In fact, all these rules are "strange" to say the least...IMHO

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by wildaction



Pira...

Their are many thai fighters who fight under these A1 rules worlwide with no problem at ....low blows and punching after the bell are illigal in ANY form of the fight game.

Everyone loves Dave including me he has refereed one of my fights in the past) but on Monday night I think a lot of people were suprised at the leniency he showed towards Daniel during the fight.

Stu.


There are not many Thai fighters who fight A-1, a few perhaps that have dabbled but Thai fighters in A-1 would be the exception rather than the norm. But I digress - I think the leniency shown may have been due to pressure to have a decision rather than a DQ.

And Bushi you always agree with me 110% - I give you the right mail.

[Bushi]

LOL Stu, Pira and I OFTEN disagree, just ask him..

But as for "many thai fighters fight under these rules", mate with respect, and i WAS NOT THERE, it seems NO ONE knew the rules.

Imsta said he understood that at the weigh in you could http://www.sportzblitz.net/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12223, first post.. quote: was always confuse with A1 and K1 rules. But last night I understood the different between A1 and K1.

A1 rules:

You are allowed to grab (both hands) and knee as many times when you're in the clinch. But if you stop kneeing you have to let go.


As for the punching after the bell, again I WAS NOT there, but it is the referee's job to STOP the fight as soon as he hears the bell, I'm sure often fighters don't hear it when in the zone..

Low blows, well they at times happen...

You should ONLY have referee's and judges for that matter who understand the rules / sport INTIMATELY, having said that, IMHO referee's with boxing and only KB background should NOT judge thai fights and even vice versa..

And it seesm on the night of A1, again, NO ONE was sure what the rules were..

Anyway, again I wasn't there. And whilst on the topic of ref's Chris Anderson IMHO should be counselled by the controlling bodies for some recent refereeing. Witnessed a fight recently where he seemed to be somewhere else, and almost cost the fighter some REAL serious damage. I think some forum members who were at that fight will know what I'm referring to.

Anyway, another lively topic this will be..:D

[John K]

OK guys, let's grant Dawson his grappling.
What about the 3 or 4 times he pushed/tripped Zambidis, the 3 low blows and the flagrant attacking after the bell. The bell rang a couple times, Dawson began his attack AFTER it rang and it was a long attack. You didn't have to be there, ask anyone on this board who attended the fight. The "heat of the moment" excuse doesn't work for me, it was a blatant and intentional foul.
For him to not get a single point decucted is amazing, especially since I've seen Dave dock points in the past for lesser things.
Dawson's a nice kid but when the bell rings he isn't the same gentleman.

[Bushi]

quote: What about the 3 or 4 times he pushed/tripped Zambidis

I'm sure having seen Daniel fight numerous times, and his background being thai style, it was NOT a push / trip as you guys refer to it, it was probably a perfectly executed thai style technique, that unfortunately many fight fans might not be familiar with, and under the rules of the night, whatever they may have been..??

I'm sure he wouldn't use it in his boxing matches, cos "kicking / sweeping" isn't allowed in boxing ?

[Bushi]

From the other Zambo / Dawson thread..

There was comment about catching and or sweeping Daniel did to Mike...have a look at this link, I think by memory 24 seconds into it.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKHoSXhmDpA, even in a mod thai and or A1, and EVEN KB, that is a perfect execution of sweeping someone off their feet... so stop whinging... ESPECIALLY if no one knew the rules ??

Have a look at the link... no one seems to have commented if this is similar to what happened..

[wildaction]

Bushi ...lol

We hear you mate ,and we understand your allegiance to MT.

In this case at the end of the day it didn't matter in regards to the refereeing as justice prevailed and the better won .

Stu.

[wildaction]

Man .

[John K]

quote:Originally posted by zdkbushido

From the other Zambo / Dawson thread..

so stop whinging...


F*ck you mate, we're allowed to discuss whatever we want if we aren't being abrasive or obnoxious. I'm sure you've done your share of "whingeing" when you had an opinion.
Nice to see you being the moderator has turned you into such a ****er.

[BTK]

John,

Since when are sweeps(and the push that sets them up)not allowed???? This is not boxing.

By the way too John, I believe your last post was a fine example of what you class yourself as being "abrasive and obnoxious".

[John K]

Catching the leg, pushing and tripping etc is not allowed in any kickboxing/K-1/A-1 fight I've seen.
No this is not boxing, but it's not Muay Thai either.
Yes, I was being abrasive, because he deserves it. There's a tendency on this board to talk down to anyone who doesn't accept or follow Muay Thai and write them off as whingers.
It's called elitism, and one of our moderators is just that. All he has to do now is justify Dawsons' low blows and after the bell attacks at Muay Thai techniques, and tell whoever disagrees to stop whingeing.

[big kicker]

well if someone could understand a1 rules i think refs would be better off i mean if i remember right the first a1 no nees then out of no where there in so work it out as far as dave gos who in melb would you have ref the main fighters i think his been around the longist out of all them

[Bushi]

John K, you've hurt my feelings.:(

Mate, As I have stated I WAS NOT THERE, so I'll point that out, AGAIN. And as for anything else you've said, being a moderator doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, I'm like you, a forum member...

quote: F*ck you mate, we're allowed to discuss whatever we want if we aren't being abrasive or obnoxious. I'm sure you've done your share of "whingeing" when you had an opinion.
Nice to see you being the moderator has turned you into such a ****er.

And I haven't stopped you from being "abrasive or obnoxious" either..nor have I spoken down to you or anyone on this thread, all I've done is put up what I think are valid points..

As for being a WAYNE KERR after becoming a moderator, I didn't need to be a moderator to be a WAYNE KERR..[:p]

This whole thread was about the refereeing, and not ANYONE who was there on the night, nor posted their opinions have been able to interpret the rules, so John K, what is it I've said that touched your nerve ??

Fact is, the rules for A1 seem to regularly be "modified" even to the contrary of the A1 website..

As for Daniels low blows, nah mate, won't defend them, especially if they were intentional, same as striking after the bell...(assuming that is the fighter/s were aware the bell had gone), same thing..

I've been to enough fights to see low blows, knees as opponents are falling to the floor, hits on or after the bell, you name it, even head butts (which were caught by the ref and points deducted in that instance)

Oh and for the record, I would have loved Dawson to win, but I have NEVER said anything derogotory about Mike wining this fight..

CONGRATS TO MIKE ZAMBIDIS..:D

Anyway, feel free to be abrasive back..;)

[Voice]

quote:Originally posted by John K

F*ck you mate, we're allowed to discuss whatever we want if we aren't being abrasive or obnoxious.

haha, quote of the day.
Consider yourself being abrasive and obnoxious! ;)

[Bushi]

Just watched rounds 3 & 4, and if you guys think that at approx 58 seconds into round 3, when Daniel swept Mike to the canvas, if you call that a trip, YOU GUYS ARE TRIPPING..;)

IMHO, Daniel won round 3.

Round 4, the groin kick, not intentional IMHO, especially when you go for an inside leg kick, but again, just MY HUMBLE OPINION. I also believe Daniel won round 4

As for where knees allowed or not, Mike threw some, jumping ones at that, so you either were or weren't allowed to ?? They're on the video and also on Terry Vorg's www.kickboxing.com.au site..

If they were allowed, Daniel CLEARLY threw more and yes they were effective from what I've witnessed. Effective = scoring !

Now, before John K and all you others jump down my throat, I have not once said the decision was bad, I'm just more frustrated that even though Mike got the decision, people are still complaining about the rules..

Make up your minds ???

Credit to Mike & Daniel, a great fight no doubt, only fair IMHO for a rematch, somewhere where the rules are AGREED and UNDERSTOOD before the bell..

[DazMon]

Yes well this is the problem, why add techniques and new rules and then not encourage or score them?

[Thai style]

wow it seems to me that a lot of people on here need to take a naprogesic....... to many swollen ovary ducts........ what do you guys expect when a promoter makes his own sanction and own rules to suit... where at any time can change the rules and as it seems not really informing anyone of what the rules actually where, including the referee... you would think that both fighters would want to know exactly what the rules where long before the fight so they could train for the fight accordingly.............. it concerns me that on such a big show with 2 very famous fighters, the referee had no idea of what the rules where himself.. how is the sport ever going to progress with bullsh£t antics like that...

as for people pissing and moaning about dawson hitting zambidis after the bell, come on serious, the guys complaining about it have obviously never stepped in the ring before... for such a big fight and all the hype i am sure that emotions would be running high.. a few hits after the bell is nothing really to be making a fuss over..

[LXXIX]

quote:Originally posted by Thai style

wow it seems to me that a lot of people on here need to take a naprogesic....... to many swollen ovary ducts........ what do you guys expect when a promoter makes his own sanction and own rules to suit... where at any time can change the rules and as it seems not really informing anyone of what the rules actually where, including the referee... you would think that both fighters would want to know exactly what the rules where long before the fight so they could train for the fight accordingly.............. it concerns me that on such a big show with 2 very famous fighters, the referee had no idea of what the rules where himself.. how is the sport ever going to progress with bullsh£t antics like that...

as for people pissing and moaning about dawson hitting zambidis after the bell, come on serious, the guys complaining about it have obviously never stepped in the ring before... for such a big fight and all the hype i am sure that emotions would be running high.. a few hits after the bell is nothing really to be making a fuss over..

and that just about sums it up!!!

[wildaction]

Ive stepped in to the ring to fight ..and hitting after the bell is bull !! (NOT ON!!)

Stop encouraging !

Stu.

[samkor]

sorry that comment from thai style was actually from me. he was logged in and i didnt check..
what do you mean wildaction about stop encouraging.. thats not what i was doing at all.. it is sort of like when a fighter hits someone when they are on the ground e.g when a fighter gets knocked and he is still getting hit in the flurry

[pahos69]

To add my 2 bob, going by previous judging and refing, Uncle Dave just doen't like Mike. He threw mentals at zambo and he's corner when Gurkan fought him, deliberately tripping Zambo Uncle Dave politely said, "If you do it again MATE ill take a point off". You can tell with all of Zambo's fights Davo just doesnt like (winners)Mike.

[Rocky]

Arnt you zambo people forgetting the last time Hedgecock ref'd his fight? Totaly disrepected Ozkan in the ring. Zambo got what he deserved. He cant be covered in cotten wool evertyime he fights!

There are many other fights that Zam disrepsects hedgecock in the ring. Take the Jenk Behic fights.. always hit after the bell.

Explains why tarik broke ties with zambo for a couple of years. Total arrogant little boy aint he.. Glad, only recently, he has toned his arrogance down.

Good on him.

[DazMon]

I noticed Dave warns fighters like Zambo and might make a little gesture of the foul or whatever and Zambo (etc) might nod but does he really understand what he's saying?

[zito]

Rocky

Zambo totaly disrespected ozcan ????

What are you on about have you seen the press confrece with ozcan should i post it again and you can see who is disrespecting who

and let me remind you off something tarik did not break ties zambo did ! you think zambo needs tarik dont make me laugh. Zambo is in K1 and without zambidis on tariks show taricks shows are nothing in auz

[Rocky]

Coke Zito dont put all your smelly eggs into one basket. Dont disguise the truth with your vast array of jaded thoughts. One argument at a time buddy.

Press conference? Just hype. In addition, that was OUT of the ring. We are talking about David Hedgecock here are we? And a fight inside the ring?? I never added a post about david hedgecock and a press conference.

As for k1 etc, Solak being a nothing etc, post a seperate thread. Leave it open for discussion :)

If you are under the age of 20, Please refrain from posting. And i'll happily delete my post. You w anker.

Your profile reads:

Hobbies: drifting

[zito]

Rocky

coke ? It sounds like your on ice or something smelly eggs WTF ! ,

If your making a statement saying zambidis disrespected him in the ring you must be on ice ,

1 the press confrence
2 Kissing zambo
3 being a clown


I guarantee 98% of people on this forum would agree that ozcan disrespected zambidis could you please tell me how zambidis in your opinion disrespected ozcan in the ring ?

So what About my hobbies I like cars what's that have to do with post ?

[Rocky]

Coke Zito aka Drifter, as per my question are you under the age of 20 ?

[DazMon]

Drifting!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

In Melbourne?
Where?