question for hammer

[bambam]

what are everyone views on sanctioning bodies any favorites and why or who gives a ****? I would like to here from you hammer on this one.

[JANER]

Hey Bambam, you have made a great point. Jeff Fenech admitted that the sanctioning bodies in boxing have gone well over proportion. In kickboxing it is quite funny how EVERYONE is a world champion. That word is used so often and in recent times it holds no value nor any respect.

So I guess the only way to reckon this is, the K1 tournaments. Its a great idea and very popular. You get the best 8 heavyweights, or the the best Middleweights (k1-max) and the winner is then crowned THE CHAMP. Its the best way to see who is the best of them all. It does assess all criteria of a good fighter. That is: Strength, stamina, skill and fitness. K1 is the ultimate way of detrermining who is the best, there will only be one. There is only one! No belt needed, and no sanctioning body needed as such.

what do u reckon guys?

good topic bambam, and for my previous post I just got a little cheesed off about your point about the fans not growing up. no hard feelings.

[Peter_]

I think tournaments are a good novelty but they are unfair and kind of unprofessional and winning a tournament doesn't mean you're the best fighter in the world IMO. Theres too many intangibles. They can be fun to watch, but one on one always does it for me.

[madjack]

Good Topic, Bravo. My only comment on K1 is "include elbows"..

[paul c]

I love watching elbow fights, but they can be a bit of a nuisance at times. Sometimes just when the fight is starting to get good, an elbow cut that blows any chance of winning an 8 man tourny. Damn.
Otherwise, I love watching full rules MT with the lighter guys, but not the big fella's.

[bambam]

I`d have to agree with Janer K1 is defininitly the way to go, and about time the fighters got the prize money they deserve. I also agree with not having elbows included, i love elbows but imagine if chopper or daniel got cut by a guy like my Norm "the Storm" the cocky replacement in judgement day 2, gees that would annoy me. On the other hand They should be good enough to evade a wayward elbow.
Is anyone paying any attention to the fight between Stephan Fox (WMC) & Phon Martdee (IAMTF). Olympics are Amature right? Phon sent over a team of amatures to the IAMTF world champs in bangkok last year and came back with 1 gold and 4 bronze medals and was critisised for not taking Australias best fighters. When it was Stephans turn he took guys like Kurt Fynalson, Bruce McFie, Amy Birch, Paul Slowinski, aren`t these guys pro. WMC got better results than IAMTF, no wonder why, and it looked a lot better for them. Whats going to happen if we make it to the Olympics are we going to pad up JWP and send him over there to chop up a bunch of fresh faced kids?? Is there anything to stop that happening??

[spycrack]

i believe they have classes e.g 3-5 fights, 20-30 fights etc.

[HAMMER]

G'day Bambam and all!
Sorry I've taken so long to get this post back, my systems been down.
Thankyou for the question as it is a bit of a favourite
topic of mine, The sanctioning body war has been around forever,
And there are a few reasons for it, but the main reasons are
1) people trying to make money, 2)ego's. Let me explain.

As someone who has been involved in the sport on all levels
as a fighter, promoter, trainer and media worker/commentator
I have seen all sides to this problem.

I'll use the example of in my opinion one of the most credible
bodies the World Kickboxing Association (WKA). the WKA at one
time in Australia and around the world was THE ONE! but then as
was the case with my mate Scott Bannon after he won the world title
no promoter from Europe was prepared to fly him from here to the UK for example to defend his title because it was too expensive.
Then the promoters would seek another sanctioning body or just over look him. The other case if a title is held by a very strong fighter
its easier to not challange for that title but instead go after another sanctioned title that is perhaps vacant, reasons for this is
You don't have to pay a champ big bucks to defend his title or fly him in from interstate or OS. You can get 2 local fighters fighting
for a World or Australian title from a dodgy sanctioning body.The promoter gets a cheap deal and the public get ripped off!? The fighters get a title that means little, except to people who don't know about the sport.

While the real champ of that division sits and wonders why he can't get any fights?? Its a very complex problem and one that even the old sport of boxing still has not found an answer.

For me now its about seeing good fights evenly matched etc...
Elbows or not it does'nt matter, Its a matter of preferance
With fighters who have lots of heart! I never judge a good fighter
by the ammount of titles, rather I look at his skill in the ring, win lose or draw. Fighters are in there doing their best, putting thier health on the line for a $50 dollar trophie and a few bucks. Show them the respect they deserve even if they get K.O.ed to me they are all Champions in their own right just for training and getting in there and having a go!!
Why do people want titles? because for those who don't really follow
the sport, and I include the mainstream media in this, its what they believe to be the measure of a good fighter.
But as we all know there are many title holders who are definatley not the best in their division or region but they have a belt to say they are?? You have to ask yourself how did they get the title and who did they fight for it?
I could go on about this.... But in short keep supporting the shows
and broadcasts and the good promoters who also put there arse's on the line investing on average up to $50,000 to put on a show and promote our sport. A example of this coming up soon... Judgement Day 3
on the 1st of September, Kelly Seif again sticking his neck out
on a show that costs a bucket, and hoping like hell that everyone will
support it.

Till next time,
The Hammer!

[bambam]

Thanks Hammer a WKA boy through and through, do you see any possible resolutions to this problem which will increase the credibility of our sport here and all over the the world. I totally agree with you I was thinking about this the other day. It has been ages since any european champions have fought any aussie champs, we sort of stick to having world title fights between the countries close to us eg: ociania and england tend to do the same thing holland and countries like that. We need support from public like swimming gets, My girlfriend is a swimmer on an international level and at the drop of a hat she has air fares, hotels , rental cars for the otherside of the world. We need scolorships from places like the institutes of sport we have in each state. It would be a dream wouldn`t it.

[Wongie]

This is a little late.....just a correction on Paul Slowinski. Paul was an amateur true an true when he won the King's Cup Gold Medal in 1999. He only had about 10 fights then and did not turn Pro until late 2000. So Bambam, I know you are quite serious about this topic but get your facts right.

As for the Olympics!!!! What about Tennis in the Olympics. Do those players who won Gold medals play for free??? How abou Track and Field, those sprinters have more money then you and I put together and that is just from getting paid to run. Is that Amateur??

[Lucy Tui]

Great topic,liked your post Hammer....I have been involved with 7 sanctioning bodies over the years I agree with you..it is about the match up and who they fight....as you know here in NSW they have the largest and if not the best amatuer kickboxers
in the world and also professional kickboxers....
I have stated before that we as a sanctioning body has brought overseas amatuer fighters to fight for titles to find that they are not as good as as local fighters (meaning NZ & Aust) so what would you do if you were a promoter spend thousands of dollars
on a fighter you do not know and is not so good or spend hundreds of dollars on the local fighters who give the public there monies worth.....I originally come from WKA background but due to disagreements and at the time bad judgement on the people running WKA on moved on..with the experiences I have
had with sanctioning bodies I have learn't IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SANCTIONING BODY IT IS ABOUT WHO RUNS THAT BODY
ARE WE AS A SANCTIONING SEEING GREAT FIGHTS,MATCH UPS..AND YES THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE RUNNING AROUND WITH TITLES ..YOU YOURSELF HAMMER HOLD A TITLE,DO YOU FEEL THAT WHEN YOU WON IT THAT YOU WERE THE BEST FIGHTER IN AUSTRALIA AT THAT WEIGHT,THE GUY YOU WON IT AGAINST I HAVE SEEN ROMOLO FIGHT HE WAS GOOD WHY? BECAUSE HE WAS TRAINED BY DANA GOODSON ONE OF AUSTRALIA'S NUMBER ONE TRAINERS...ANY FIGHTER WHO WINS AGAINST A TOP TRAINER & GYM WILL FEEL LIKE A CHAMPION...NOW DID THE SANCTIONING BODY COME INTO PLAY NO....IT WAS WHAT WAS BEHIND THE SANCTIONING BODY..IF YOU HAD WON IT AGAINST SOME TRAINER OR FIGHTER WE HAVE NEVER HEARD OF WOULD YOU HAVE FELT THE SAME FEELINGS........MY POINT IN THIS IS LOOK AT WHO YOU FIGHT THAT IS WHAT COUNTS WHETHER IT BE FOR WHAT EVER TITLE OR FIGHT...I have never in all the years made 100's and thousands of dollars been a sanctioning body or promoter or manager, my goal in this sport is to make sure everyone gets a fair go and I think we as a organisation are doing that....Do not look at the bad judging here in NSW that is simply out of my hands...I am trying to get that rectified by conducting Referee & Judging seminars conducted by the best people in Australia....
THE INCIDENT WITH SCOTT BANNON THROWING THE BELT IN THE BIN.,. .WHAT ABOUT THE GUY FROM THE COUNTRY WHO WON AGAINST SCOTTY BANNON A UNKNOWN NOW HE MUST HAVE BEEN FEELING LIKE HE WON A WORLD TITLE, WHY DID HE FEEL THAT WAY BECAUSE SOMEONE LIKE SCOTTY WHO HAS DONE ALOT FOR THE SPORT IN QUEENSLAND AND IS A TRUE CHAMPION IN HIS OWN RIGHT
EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT FIGHT FOR A TITLE WHICH COME BACK TO OUR LOCAL FIGHTERS WHO HAVE DONE WELL...WHAT ABOUT WHEN SCOTTY & IAN FOUGHT GUYS FROM OVERSEAS THEY KNOCKED THEM OUT .....(MY POINT WITH BRINGING OVER FIGHTERS FROM ACROSS THE WORLD)....DOES THE SANCTIONING BODY COME INTO PLAY WITH THE ABOVE NO IT COMES DOWN TO THE FIGHT......
IT IS NOT ABOUT HOW BIG THE ORGANISATION WORLDWIDE
IT IS HOW YOU RUN THAT ORGANISATION....
IF YOU HAVE GOOD MATCHMAKERS AND GOOD JUDGES & REFEREES IT WILL MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE SPORT..NO MATTER WHAT SANCTIONING BODY YOU BELONG TO...Sorry about post been so long, just thought to give my opinion seen I have been involved with different sanctioning bodies worldwide..... WKA,ISKA,WMTA,IKBF,WKO, WKBF,K1.....
Regards
Lucy Tui :)

[krama]

Interesting topic

Janers point about the K1 is very valid - and quite a few people around the world seem to agree - thus the reason why the K1 is so immensely popular!

Sanctioning bodies are out of control and it is hard to work out which ones have any credibility any more!
The old case of 'everyone is a world champ'- well get them all in the ring - same night same conditions - give them the same amount of time to prepare and see who is standing at the end! Answer K1!!!

The formula should now extend to different weight divisions to allow different levels to participate.

The Thais have it set up pretty well - Lumpini Champs and the Presidents Cup etc - there is no bull**** "lets watch Scott kick the **** out of some 'C' grader called Con Grivas and be called a champ" fights - they are all evenly matched and brutal - you enter the unprepared in Lumpini and you are dead!!