Cuts, how bad should we allow

[Mungkorn]

The biggest fear of a fighter, is getting cut and the fight being stopped.
With Am fighters I have no problem stopping a fight from a cut but with the Pro fighters how far should we let the cut go before stopping it. On some occasions I have seen fights stopped too soon and on other occasions not soon enough.
What is your thought...........

One World One MuayThai

[Mungkorn]

I don't mind the blood, just a question I would like to know what other people think....

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[shaunw]

if a fighter wants to continue, let them. am or pro

Max Power, he's the man who's name you'd love to touch. But you mustn't touch! His name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it you mustn't fear! Cause his name can be said by anyone

[Cheen Machine]

If a cut is above the eyes or blood is running into the eyes and the blood doesnt look like stopping stop the fight. If a cut is that bad that a fighter may suffer severe blood loss stop the fight.

You can talk all ya want but talk is cheap.

[supermario]

I think that if a cut doesn't impair the fighter's vision, the bout should be allowed to continue unless the fighter or their corner wish to stop it. I just got flashbacks to JWP vs Chris Allen at Melbourne's Crown Casino>> "I've had worse in Thailand". Nasty.

[Mungkorn]

Supermario, I had that thought when I started this thread, but I thought that cut wasn't too bad, what about AM fighters should it be allowed to go that far....

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[Bushi]

Where's TS2 when you need an opinion..<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

You gotta remember JWP v The Manchester Machine...it wasn't so much the blood, it was the actual cut and golf ball swekking under his left eye !!

It depends in the Ref, the doctors...dare I say the controlling body on the night...JWP let TS2 v Rung Chai go on for ages bu tin the end he had no choice but to stop it...

Amateurs....well divided opinion, but IMHO depending on where the cut is, if the fighter wants to continue and it's doing nore harm apart from the sight of it...let it go.

In the end common sense from wither trainer, fighter, ref or doctors prevails..



Bushi

"Yours in Bushido"

[mark pease]

Well guys my opinion is as most if the blood is imparing the vision and the fighter is in discomfort, and belive me the ref can see this for himself. Stop the fight! i have no problems with this and with Rung and Aaron that is what happened.

Ts2 was still willing to fight as most could see but it was imparing his vision as he kept trying to blow the blood away from his eye, and with this it could lead to worst damage or even worst again a knockout. Beacause at this point you are not 100% concentratining on the fight so better to stop.

But in saying that i have seen with Aaron and even Pixie, Sorren and many others including Thais blood pouring out of cuts and it does not affect there vision at all continue the fight is the only option and if you have a good corner crew you do your work between rounds to stem the flow of blood, and if you belive the cut to big or the fighter says no more than that should be it. Also if the ref and the doctor think the blood cant be stopped enough between rounds then they should also consult the corner and tell them of this.

Cheers Mark Pease

[Bushi]

Mark,

How frustrated does Aaron get, he looked REALLY pissed v Rung and at EVO6 re Benjamin Rittler, after he was cut yo could see him step up into overdrive...he knew he had to get it finished. !!!

Is Aaron the fighter that cuts the easiset on the Australian scene, I havn't seen many others that get cut as he does, or is that cos he's always within elbow range, dishing the out and wearing just as many..

Bushi

"Yours in Bushido"

[shaunw]

f16 gets cut alot imo

Max Power, he's the man who's name you'd love to touch. But you mustn't touch! His name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it you mustn't fear! Cause his name can be said by anyone

[mark pease]

Hi Bushi
Aaron seems to of late get a few cuts but he out of 35 fights 5 cuts, so realy that is not to bad. But in saying that he likes to throw them as well just like JWP in the early days.
And with Benjamin as most could see he was a bigger boy and normally fights at 2 weights up from Aaron (but no excuses) and Rung was in the corner telling him what to do, so he was always going to go for them and Ts2 was lucky cause this one is above the hairline and not on the forehead..

At times though i wish he would sit back a little more and be paitient just like when he fought Damion Trainor.

Cheers Mark Pease...

[Mungkorn]

Could you imagine if you weren't allowed to use adrenilin in the corner on cuts, how many fights would get stopped then, I have come across some pretty horrific cuts in my time but have always managed to stem the flow of blood with adrenilin.....
Never go to a fight night without some....<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>:)

One World One MuayThai

[shaunw]

adrenalin works wonders!!! it would be crap without it, there would be alot of blood!!!

Max Power, he's the man who's name you'd love to touch. But you mustn't touch! His name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it you mustn't fear! Cause his name can be said by anyone

[mark pease]

I dont know what you guys are talking about ha ha ha.
I carry it everywhere now days.

[Mungkorn]

Does anyone have problems taking adrenilin through customs, I have been asked what is it for a few times, they look at you funy when you tell then it is for stopping a cut from bleeding on a fighter...

One World One MuayThai

[supermario]

Mungkorn, you're right, the cut JWP sustained vs Chris Allen wasn't enough to stop the fight, it just looked nasty. As for amateurs, well, a fighter is a fighter, whether they get paid or not, so they should be given the respect and courtesy afforded to the pros in terms of when to stop the fight, so I'm still of the opinion that if a cut doesn't impair the fighter's vision, the bout should be allowed to continue unless the fighter or their corner wish to stop it, in both the pro and amateur ranks.

[assclown]

As long as the fighter and his corner is comfortable to continue fighting the fight should not be stopped.

[Voice]

this is a very good topic Big Seth.
I believe there should not be a hard and fast rule. I agree with all the discussion about impaired vision etc, but when it comes down to it we need to judge it also on what is at stake for the fighters in that fight.

If it is a couple relatively inexperienced amateurs then it should be stopped quickly. If it is a pro world title fight it can continue until the point where the fighter can no longer protect himself properly.

Even a pro fight which is not a title fight and relatively low prizemoney IMO should be stopped fairly quickly.

My logic is that fighters in the beginning of their careers should not be getting bad cuts regularly for relatively little gain. We all have to live later in life and having 20 scars across the forehead, eyes etc does noone any good. Getting chopped up for $500 is not good business sense, so I believe the trainer needs to be aware of what is happening to his charge as 95% of the time the brave fighter will still want to continue.

The other issue is the excessive blood pouring out. We aren't in Roman times, the fighter doesn't die at the end of the show so if we want the sport taken seriously and attracting mainstream media coverage, we cannot have scenes like in Rocky.

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Mungkorn]

Voice I agree with you....<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

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[Seth_2]

good point voice, but on the other hand i know that if i was in centre ring with a gash on my head i wouldnt want to let the fight be stopped because of it. every fight IMO means just as much as any other whether it be a world title or your first fight. I would hate to see the likes of JWP come and fight unfit and not care if it was a local fight and little money involved.. im sure all fighters would agree.

definately amatuer fights should be stoppd fairly quick, but as for pros i would think it should go on until it is affecting the fighter in a negative way.



"One World One Muaythai"

[Dynamite Drew]

mungkorn

you need to watch the JWP vs Chris Allen fight

JWP ended with 50 odd stitches if i remember correctly

i still remember when they checked one of his cuts and you could literally see his cheekbone and JWP said dont worry i have had worse in Thailand or something to that extent

personally , i think its upto the trainer and fighter to discuss this before a fight so the trainer understands when the fighter wants to be stopped if cut

i remember when i fought in qld , the ref talked with us before the bout and he said if we got cut he would let it go as long as possible and would only stop the fight if really serious cut



We who are truely brave will never live in fear!

[Voice]

quote:good point voice, but on the other hand i know that if i was in centre ring with a gash on my head i wouldnt want to let the fight be stopped because of it. every fight IMO means just as much as any other whether it be a world title or your first fight. I would hate to see the likes of JWP come and fight unfit and not care if it was a local fight and little money involved.. im sure all fighters would agree.

definately amatuer fights should be stoppd fairly quick, but as for pros i would think it should go on until it is affecting the fighter in a negative way.



Well spoken Li'l Seth, but as your Dad will tell you, sometimes the decision should not be the fighters. The trainer is there to protect his fighter and look out for his best interests. Most fighters are too brave for their own good and running on adrenalin which means they could do serious damage without knowing or caring. A good trainer will be prepared to make that decision as he/she knows that you can always come back and fight another day. Getting the crap bashed out of you or taking too many cuts will shorten your career and destroy your brainpower.
At least the fight should be worth sometime big if he is to allow it to continue beyond normal limits.

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Seth_2]

true true.. i think that there should be a standard ruling for cuts. some ref's may leave it longer, eg. the murph and some may be to quick to stop it. seeing the boxing comission or the combat sports comission have stepped in, should they be the ones to make the decision of how bad cuts can get in a fight..?

"One World One Muaythai"