Regarding Masato X Mike Zambidis...

[Kobayashi]

Alrighty, I went in-depth with this match just to see if there was any controversy like last time. And you folk can rest assured, there wasn't. Masato did, however, break his foot and ankle in the FIRST MINUTE OF ROUND 1, and as a result, was unable to block any of Zambidis low-kicks or throw many kicks of his own (but yes, he still landed more kicks than Zambidis). The first round was definitely a draw (they landed an even amount of punches and kicks), the second round was Masato by a close margin (or a draw) and the third was easily Masato's. Here are the statistics:

Punches that landed clean on the head/face/jaw: Masato landed 22, Zambidis landed 7
Punches that landed clean on the body: Zambidis landed 12, Masato landed 1
Kicks that landed clean on the body or legs: Masato landed 33, Zambidis landed 29

There were a few knees from both, but none landed. So knees were completely a non-factor. There was ZERO, and I mean ZERO clinching in this fight. Even despite Masato's broken ankle and foot (he was unable to walk after the fight and will need 2 months off) he still outboxed and outkicked Zambidis =| Unbelievable. Even without the knockdown, he'd have won the match because he was landing much more in the second and third round. I think it's safe to say that the best kickboxer (punches and kicks only) in the world is now Masato, as even under kickboxing rules, Masato would outbox and outkick Zambidis. If he can do it with a broken ankle and foot, he can do it fresh much easier.

If there's any doubt, please watch this fight, count all the strikes yourself... and you'll believe it.

Have a nice day, boys!

http://www.so-net.ne.jp/feg/database/050720img/ph08_4.jpg

Edited by - Kobayashi on 23 Jul 2005 11:47:23

[Kobayashi]

http://www.so-net.ne.jp/feg/k-1gp/images/050720/photo02b.jpg

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125355m0001817m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018179.jpg

http://www.so-net.ne.jp/feg/database/050720img/ph03_8.jpg

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125356m0001818m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018184.jpg

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125356m0001818m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018185.jpg

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125356m0001818m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018186.jpg

Here's the knockdown. It was very clean and Zambidis never really recovered, and so took many more hits until the end of the round.
http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125356m0001818m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018183.jpg
http://www.so-net.ne.jp/feg/database/050720img/ph03_10.jpg


http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn200572125356m0001818m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200507/im00018189.jpg

I know we all love Zambidis over here, and as good as the fight was, it wasn't really that close this time.

Edited by - Kobayashi on 22 Jul 2005 23:48:20

[babyface]

the best fighter on the night one.....
Masato...... had the goods.......
Well done to both the fighters either way true champions....

[Voice]

good post Kobayashi...

hey, does Zambo look pretty beefy or what in that last photo? Masato is a machine to fight 2 rounds against Zambo with a broken foot and still knock him down.

Was the overall tournament a high standard and equal to the expectations we all had?

-----------------------------
A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Kobayashi]

Hi voice,

Unfortunately, I'd have to say no... this was the worst MAX Grand Prix of all 4, but still great of course! But great doesn't cut it considering the card was the best EVER. Why wasn't it good?
1. No KO's
2. Final match was controversial, even JWP said Buakaw should've had it
3. Masato having to pull out due to his broken ankle
4. Zambidis not getting a chance to replace Masato

I believe Masato or Zambidis would've definitely knocked out Souwer, so it's a shame they didn't get to move on. The final fight was definitely controversial, the judges really didn't want Buakaw winning it.

In order, these were the best matches:
1. Masato X Zambidis - Very tense (as all Zambidis matches are) and just a marvelous display of heart, determination, skill, speed and power from both fighters. Zambidis was very respectful in defeat unlike last time and gave Masato a hug, congratulated him and acknowledged that he was indeed knocked down.

2. JWP X Kraus - AWESOME! Very aggressive style from both fighters, lots of hard shots landed from both fighters. Round 3 was the best, when JWP looked like he was going to finish Kraus! Close, good match.

3. Buakaw X Kraus - Good fight, Buakaw showed the last fight was a fluke, because this time, Buakaw had NO difficulties with Kraus. None whatsoever. Very easy win for him, fun to watch.


Strangely... all 3 of Souwer's matches sucked.

Edited by - Kobayashi on 23 Jul 2005 11:41:51

[Tony]

Don't know about you guys, but I am SERIOUSLY getting tired of controversy and dodgy judging at K-1 events. When there is a show, the only thing we can safely predict is bad decisions.

And incidentally, why didn't Zambidis replace Masato? Heck, Ernesto Hoost won a K-1 Grand Prix once after getting KO'd in his first fight of the tournament! They gave him another chance after his opponent pulled out.

[Kobayashi]

Hi Tony,

We would have ALL loved Zambidis replacing Masato, he would've slaughtered Souwer.

HOWEVER, the rules say that the winner of the reserve match will fight, and that was Kazuya Yasuhiro =( It's a shame, but that's the rules.

In the Hoost incident, I believe both reserve fighters were injured.

[Kobayashi]

I wonder who Zambidis will face in October? Hopefully Buakaw Por.Puramuk or Andy Souwer!

[Dynamite Drew]

Kobayashi

I didnt there was any controversy in the 1st Masato - Zambidis fight

I thought Masato won it no problem

I think it was mainly the Zam nuthuggers that had a problem

Same as last year when Kohi thoroughly beat Zam , all the zam nuhuggers whinged and complained

I cant wait to get the video and watch it myself

BTW thanks for the analysis of the fight Kobayashi good job


We who are truely brave will never live in fear!

Edited by - Dynamite Drew on 23 Jul 2005 21:23:48

[Kobayashi]

Dynamite Drew,

I definitely agee with you, mate. I saw no controversy in the first fight either (or the Kohiruimaki fight), but I heard no end to it from Zambidis nuthuggers. I'm a big Zambidis fan, but Zambidis nuthuggers make me want to cheer against Zambidis all the time =(

I certainly hope the Zambidis nuthuggers don't make controversy about this fight too, because they make a fool of themselves and of Zambidis. Zambidis has completely acknowledged this loss, has said the knockdown was good, etc. Zambidis-fans, please don't ruin his name with your nuthugging =)



Edited by - Kobayashi on 23 Jul 2005 22:28:33

[Zambo Rambo]

Kobayashi, i agree with some of the things you have said, i was there to see it first hand, but everyone that was in the blue corner room saw it like this.

Darius Skiliaudys who fought kazuya Yasuhiro in the reserve fight said that zambidis should have replaced Masato. This fight was stopped by the doctor, yasuhiro had copped a cut above the eye, which means he should have never been able to fight as a replacement, but then again he is Japanese and that's what happens in the K-1, they want there own to win.

Ray Mutsamara, Andy Souwers Trainers, kid Yamamoto and Virgil Kalakoda said the same thing.

Sam Greco who was ringside came into our room and said to Zambidis that he got Shafted once again by the Japanese judges and it should have gone an extra round.

This is how most in our blue corner room judged the fight.

1st round draw
2nd round Zambidis
3rd round Masato (due to Knockdown)

Nobody is taking away the Masato knockdown, it was an error from Zambidis, he is human aswell, Zambidis kicked the $hit out of Masato's leg, it was purple on the thigh and had round lumps. Most of the kicks that Masato gave Zambidis were blocked, maybe that's how he broke his foot.

The Masato and Zambidis fight was the best fight of the night, there was no holding like the other fights.

The final between Baukaw and Souwer was disgraceful, more of a grappling match, holding each other from start to finish and all you can here was break, break, break.

At the end of the day the Japanese judges got shafted cause there boy Masato couldn't continue and was in a wheelchair.

As for my boy Zambidis he was ready to take on Souwer and the finalist.

ps, The weather in Japan Sux

[Kobayashi]

Hey man,

Yeah, I agree that Zambidis should've went on to face Souwer. I'm sure he would've beaten Souwer because he was looking sharp, maybe even by KO. But y'know... the rules say the reserve fighter gets the spot and that's that. Although he should've been considered injured as he walked in with a cut. Ah well...

However, I think you need to rewatch the fight. The first round was a draw, correct. However, the second round wasn't Zambidis--no way. That was Masato's strongest round, he landed far more punches and far more kicks. Count them yourself if you doubt me. That SHOULD have been a 10-9 for Masato, but they scored it a draw. I don't understand how you score a round to Zambidis if he was out-boxed AND out-kicked? Please rewatch it and count for yourself.

As for Zambidis blocking kicks... I hate to say it, man. No disrespect, but you're wrong again. He blocked about 3 =\ And yes, one of those blockages (of a left middle-kick) broke Masato's foot and ankle.

And Sam Greco is known for approaching fighters after a match and cheering them up, I've seen him do it several times. But like I said, even if Masato didn't drop Zambidis, it should've been scored 30-28 (Masato winning round 2 and 3).

Anyway pal, I understand you're extremely partial to Zambidis with great reason and that you're not just some nuthugger. But I did the research, I've played the entire fight in slow-mo, carefully counted the clean shots, etc. If you missed my first post, here were the stats:

Punches that landed clean on the head/face/jaw: Masato landed 22, Zambidis landed 7
Punches that landed clean on the body: Zambidis landed 12, Masato landed 1
Kicks that landed clean on the body or legs: Masato landed 33, Zambidis landed 29

Zambidis didn't win in any aspects, I'm sorry.

Take care!

[shaunw]

we need to see masato in oz!!!! from memory didnt he chop the **** out of tc ben smullens legs years ago????

pig goes oink oink, cow goes moo, chicken goes cluck cluck, how bout you?

[Tony]

Drew, you may have thought Masato (1st fight) and Kohi beat Zambidis thoroughly as you say, but you are well and truly in the minority. It's more your blind hatred for Zambidis that makes you want to believe the fights weren't even close. Fact is the majority of people feel otherwise, and not all of them are "nuthuggers".
And besides, when you gloat about a classy fighrer getting beaten, it makes you look as bad as any nuthugger who abuses anyone who isn't as one eyed as them.

[supermario]

I'd love to see Zambidis vs Masato in OZ, maybe in one of Ray Matsumura's shows in the Gold Coast. As far as people calling others nuthuggers... man, keep that crap in other forums, don't bring it into this one.

[Kiwi Sting]

Zam didn’t impress me much at all. He looked almost similar to when he fought Murat. I think he took a good beating from Masato.

How ever I also think he should have made the semi’s when Masato was injured.
Instead K1 had added Kasuya Yasuhiro to the line-up. A fighter who never qualified to be part of the actual tournament line up but then again, in K1's eyes he was perfect. Yasuhiro is a Seido Kaikan Karate exponent and it is coincidental that Kazuyoshi Ishii is the founder of Seido Kaikan and K1. I admire the crafty little plan K1 has made, devious little guys.

[Bushi]

Plain and Simple,

The rules are the rules and Zambo COULD NOT replace Masato..

End of debate.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Yours in Bushido"

[johnny_619]

K1 Sucks balls!!!

Zambo didnt even get a round.

Fair and square decision??????

Say mike didnt get knocked down, he still wouldnt have a round next to his name..masato had it wrapped up before that last round on the japanese cards.

MASATO COME TO ATHENS!!!!!!!

AS for the beating mike copped... he could have gone on again and again..he wasnt beaten at all.

He got caught and yes beaten in the last 10-9 easy.

But the first two..you cant honestly say that mike didnt win those rounds, let alone get a draw.

To say mikes style hasnt changed is a blind comment he kicks like an ox now and Masato felt it.

About the landed shots...if i give you a tap on the leg or bust your leg up so much you cant go on anymore does that score better? Ot is a kick a kick and a punch a punch if you know what i mean?

-----------------------
Greeks dont fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks!

Edited by - johnny_619 on 24 Jul 2005 16:37:46

Edited by - johnny_619 on 24 Jul 2005 16:39:49

[Kobayashi]

I shall post it again...

Punches that landed clean on the head/face/jaw: Masato landed 22, Zambidis landed 7
Punches that landed clean on the body: Zambidis landed 12, Masato landed 1
Kicks that landed clean on the body or legs: Masato landed 33, Zambidis landed 29

Johnny 619, Masato landed more punches AND more kicks. This means that:

Round 1 was 10-10
Round 2 was 10-09 (Masato landed more punches AND kicks)
Round 3 was 10-08 (Masato landed more punches AND kicks AND got a KD)

The final score should've been 30-27, but was scored 30-28. So if anything, the judges *HELPED* Zambidis. Count the shots yourself if you don't believe it.

As for Zambidis damaging Masato's leg... are you really so ignorant? Are you like the only person on this board who doesn't know that Masato broke his foot and ankle in the first round of this match? That's why he couldn't walk. Losing his ability to walk didn't come from Mike's kicks. And yes, Mike did land a lot of kicks (29), but Masato landed more (33) and Masato's kicks are FAR harder, probably the hardest low-kicks in MAX. If Zambidis broke his ankle and foot, do you think he'd be able to walk either?

Dude, face it... Masato outboxed and outkicked Zambidis WITH a broken ankle slowing him down. Zambidis has given Masato credit for the win, you might as well do the same. You're making Zambidis look silly, we all know he has more class than that.

And I didn't want to bring it up... but you're forcing me to. Masato has had a severe knee injury slowing him down all year, watch his May 2005 fight with Im Chi Bin. Masato's knee is so damaged that he can't even raise his leg to block kicks anymore. This is why he looks uncomfortable when he gets kicked on the left leg. He had the same reaction to kicks in his last fight, not just this fight.


Edited by - Kobayashi on 24 Jul 2005 17:04:43

[Bushi]

Johnny

Where you at the fight !

It's like JWP losing, he lost, some say unfairly but he lost.

Where's the post about it on thsi forum where EVERYONE gripes...I DO NOT SEE 1...

Sure the judging seems a little "biased" shall we say, but them's the breaks. There is ALWAYS bias, unless you get ko'd then it's NEVER going to please everyone..

Johnny...."Masato Come to Athens"...c'mon that just shows that YOU believe the Greek judges will favour Mike...

ENOUGH SAID..!!!

The result is the result, DEAL WITH IT..<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Congrats to Andy Souwer...

"Yours in Bushido"

[Tony]

LOL @ zdkbushido. You're being bossy aren't ya? Deal with it? Fair comment but you don't exactly live by those words when you gripe and gripe and gripe about anytime you reckon JWP was hard done by!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Bushi]

Tony, Tony, Tony....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Mate, I'm a HUGE fan of his, but go back and check where I've GRIPED and GRIPED and GRIPED...

I accept that sometimes judges are WRONG and DEAL with it...

"Yours in Bushido"

[Zambo Rambo]

Guy's lets not start arguing about what happened, it's over now Masato won yes, he did I'm just glad that Masato couldn't carry on and was very happy to see him get carried out of the stadium by his team. Not hating Masato, but the judges that wanted him to win the K-1 World Max 05.
Keep in mind that the must of had plenty of money Masato.

All we wanted was at least 1 round to us which i think we deserved and also to replace Masato for the semi final, but we got jack.

zdkbushido, explain the rules to us please and explain the reserve fight and how the doctor stopped the fight, but they let the Japanese *uck continue.

Kobayashi, since you have done your homework from this fight, please do me one more favour and do your homework on the last fight they had, since you and Drew think otherwise. Don't get me wrong i like what you have to say.

Kiwi sting, when Zambidis fought kid Yamamoto, he looked at his best i must say, i personally think he shouldn't have had the last fight in Greece with Murat, it was very close to the k-1 world Max event.

Zambidis said that he needs to fight against very tough opponents and one of them was Masato, it's a pity that there's nobody in Australia that is tough enough to take him on.

Zambidis win, loose or draw his still the best kickboxer on the planet.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

[nagas]

Shame to see both JWP & Zambo lose in their opening bouts.
I can't comment on the show as i have not seen it myself.
But one thing i can comment on though is Masato's fractured ankle which apparently happened in the 1st round????
Anyone who has broken or fractured their leg would understand that as soon as it happens you cannot stand on that leg or apply any sort of weight on it, let alone throw kicks with the leg in question.
I know Masato's tough but c'mon now.
So just a question to the people that have seen the fight..... was Masato showing any sign of limping after the first round???
Unless he broke it right at the end of their fight, cause with a broken hand you can fight on, but im sure you would not throw many meaningful punches for the rest of the fight.

"Alex your drunk & he's you brother"
"yes im drunk, tommorrow i'll be sober, but he'll always be a fag*ot" Van Damme

[Kobayashi]

Hi nagas,

I've broken my ankle and foot before (not at the same time though). I could walk, but every time slight pressure was applied to it... I was in absolute agony. The pain increased as time went by. By no means do I think I could've fought with that, even for a minute. I do think it's possible. Your body would have to be OD'd on a adrenalin though.

To answer your questions:
1. Yep, Masato switched stances to protect his leg. He NEVER blocked any of Zambidis' kicks for fear of his ankle being hit.
2. His movement became sluggish and he STOPPED kicking with the 'leg in question'.
3. He became extremely hesistant, and often forgot about the leg and ALMOST threw kicks with it, but quickly stopped in pain and backed off.
4. He limped to his corner, yes. Limped worse in round 2. Couldn't walk after round 3 and needed his corner to carry him to the actual decision!

I believe the injury occurred in round 1, but the severity of it increased and increased as the fight went on. He even said he could feel the bones break more and more as the fight progressed.

[dutts72]

From the pics shown it looks like Masatos left foot was broken? Plus most of the pics shown was Masato kicking with his right leg to the body which normally is his favoured technique from a switch left kick.

Not haven seen the fight but just from these pics alone and others I have seen Masato mainly used his right leg to the body and legs. Anyway I believe someone can certainly damage there foot an ankle badly and still continue as I have seen it many times before.

Zambo Rambo yes Zambidis is an awesome kickboxers and one of the greats around the world but not the greatest. The depth of great fighters is so deep these days it would be hard pressed to say that about any one fighter. Perhaps a reborn Diamond Dekker will soon again rain supreme!!!!

"Muay Thai Never Dies"
"Life in Every Breath"
Ome Mane Padme Hum

[Kobayashi]

Hi dutts,

Yes you are right, he does prefer to use the left middle kick. He barely uses the right one, but in this case, he had to because of his broken left foot--correct.

In the third round he threw a big left middle kick by accident and it seemed to really hurt him. He tried to stop it at the last minute, but it had already made impact. Ouch.

[krama]

Hi Kobayashi
I havent written on the forum for ages because I got sick of the crap - especially from that moron D*ckwad drew
I am a big fan of Zam and finally appreciate someone giving me an unbiased, realistic acount of what happened. Many of us have been waiting for this to happen to Zam - the ko that is - I believe it will wake him up - a reminder that he is not invincible - my view is the next bloke he fights he will completely smash to pieces. He will come back stronger and harder than ever. Everyone wrote him off when Mike 'cant' Cope miraculously lifted his knee and split Zam's forehead many years back - he returned and ko oponent after oponent -

[Voice]

Agreed, and welcome back Krama, we need to continually remind ourselves that this tourney was K1 rules.
Under kickboxing and Muay Thai I am certain we would have 2 different winners. Hence why I don't like these comparisons on who is 'better'.

Maybe Zambo did need a little wake up call but he is still very potent under his natural kickboxing rules, and at the same time JWP and Buakaw are at the top of the tree in MT.

These continual ramblings about why he did or didn't win and why he will or won't next time are pretty boring. Lots of intrigue and controversy in this tournament...great, but lets not take away from the great effort of each guy by running silly and unfair comparisons.

-----------------------------
A man's gotta know his limitations...

Edited by - voice on 25 Jul 2005 16:33:27

[SPADA]

Shaunw........

Ben Smullen was taken apart by Kohi in Melbourne.

Masato has fought Ben "Pixie" Burton and stopped him with leg kicks.
I think Pixie went into that fight with a broken nose as well.


Zambo Rambo........

Has Zambidis ever had an offer to fight in the superleague???
If the playing field (judging) is so unfair in the MAX.... then maybe it is time to let him loose on the best that superleague has to throw at him.Kraus,JWP and Chopper switch over occasionly.... so why can't Zambidis as well.
You have pointed out correctly,that Zambidis has fished the pond in Australia and there is no one left to fight,so Europe has to be his next stop.

As much as i like watching Zambidis's fight style..... he cannot lay claim to being the best "kickboxer" in the world when he hasn't won the MAX.To win the MAX is the milestone for all fighters around 70 kgs.You need more then just ability to win it....... awhole lot of luck and of course stay injury free.

To be the best kickboxer on the planet.... you have to fight under "kickboxing rules"

12 rounds ( not 5 rounds )
No knees or grappling

At this stage.... Masato would have to get the nod ahead of him simply because Zambidis hasn't beaten him on 2 occasions.

Kamal El Amrani and Paulo Balicha both have great kickboxing pedigree
and a win over any of these 2 would put more weight toward Zambidis being " Pound 4 pound the best kickboxer in the world".

anyway.... hope to see zambidis in action again soon.

cheers Spada

[Kobayashi]

Good post, SPADA. And correct, it is Ben Burton that Masato stopped with low-kicks, not Smullen.

Hi krama, yes I agree 100%. Zambidis isn't one to go weak after a loss, he'll get stronger and stronger and continue to KO many many top fighters. Masato is just not the man for him for many reasons... super slick boxing, leg shattering kicks, an iron chin, rock solid defense--Masato is just someone who will always elude Zambidis, I think. But I feel that Zambidis is capable of beating any of the other top MAX fighters, I even believe he'd KO Souwer. Puramuk X Zambidis... that'd be interesting. I won't dare to predict a winner on that one since Buakaw's strengths are Mike's weaknesses and vice versa.

[Voice]

interesting Kobayashi on that point...some fighters have opponents who bogey them all their careers yet they might comfortably outclass fighters who can beat the former. Same with football teams.

Seems the Zambo vs Masato thing should be put to rest for a year or two as it is clear who has the advantage...best to break into Superleague or fight JWP for example.

Please no more Zambo vs 'Serbia's best boxer' and the like. We've seen him win endless numbers of mismatched fights here, i'd love to see his career move on.

-----------------------------
A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Zambo Rambo]

Spada, Not sure if Zambidis has had an offer from superleague, but what i do know is that he will be looking at other avenues besides wanting to compete and win the K-1 World Max. I don't want to spill the beans too much, but Mike Zambidis might fight a high profile name in Holland or in Greece this year, we just have to wait and see.

Voice, totally agree with you about Mike Zambidis having mismatched fights here in Australia, but what do you do if people want to fight him. The only fight we would like to see here in Australia would be with JWP and once again Ray declined due to JWP fighting Preacher some time this year.

I was in the bus with the guy's coming back from the Yokohama Stadium when Tarik spoke to Ray about it.

[shaunw]

thanks spada got em mixed up

pig goes oink oink, cow goes moo, chicken goes cluck cluck, how bout you?

[Bushi]

Zambo.. quote: Not sure if Zambidis has had an offer from superleague I take that as NO, cos you have ALWAYS been in the "know" when it comes to Mike..<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Either way, NO ONE here disputes his ability, we ALL just want to see him better matched..so let's hope his next matches are better matched.

"Yours in Bushido"

[johnny_619]

The max is a great prize but doesnt make you the best. You have to beat the best to be the best simple as that a tournament isnt exactly a fair ground. Maybe they should have a belt in k1.

As for mike going and hand picking opponents he doesnt. He lets people do the talking its simply get the best offer...

Do some people actually think that tarik solak wants to see mike zambidis against weak opponents or do you think he wants to cash in on big names? He looks around all the time but they knock everything back.



-----------------------
Greeks dont fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks!

[Bushi]

quote: You have to beat the best to be the best simple as that a tournament isnt exactly a fair ground. Maybe they should have a belt in k1.

Ok, so a belt makes you the best.....Johhny, c'mon, the belt is what you get at the end of the tournament, like a trophy, a winners check...

If you have won the tournament you are the best...

Having said that, even the best get beaten.....that's why they have tournaments...is it 5 winners in 5 years in Max....

The belt does not make you a champion....JMHO..<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Yours in Bushido"

[Kobayashi]

I agree. The GP title makes you the best, at least of that year.

To be the best you have to beat the best? Well, the absolute best are at MAX, so if you get the title, you did beat the best.

I personally think that being able to do 3 fights in one night has a lot to do with being the best.

As for Mike not choosing opponents, well that's true enough, but he chose Masato and Masato's not the type to say no.

[Matt J]

nope, tournaments are inherently flawed and are not a true indicator of the best guy. tournaments by nature are flawed and unbalanced and always leave people with more questions than answers at the end. ive hated the tournamnet concept since it debuted in 93. they are a fun (and lucrative to be sure) novelty but thats it. not true indicators of greatness. anybody who truly thinks andy souwer is the worlds bst middleweight please raise your hand. thought so.



Edited by - Matt J on 26 Jul 2005 20:39:43

[fuskas]

I Agree! tournaments suck! not a true indicator of being the best fighter! alot of luck is needed to win a tournament.

[supermario]

K-1 having a champion is not a bad idea, the winner of the middleweight and heavyweight GPs could get a shot at the belt, maybe over 10x3 min rnds, therefore making the title bout potentially tougher than the GP tournament. A tournament is a good way to pick a number one contender, but not an undisputed champion.

[Matt J]

days of 10 and 12 rnds are over my friend, people cant seem to comprehend going beyond 3 rnds anymore. apparently this is progression. lol!

[Kobayashi]

Well I think many people don't see Souwer as the best MW in the world because he didn't fight Masato or Zambidis like he should've. I don't think many people feel that he would've gotten past them 2.

[Bushi]

Agree but you can only beat who's put in front of you....

So that also means, Aussie Rules, NRL, Union, Soccer, the OLYMPICS etc are all not truly reflective of who's the best...

I think I'm catching on...<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Yours in Bushido"

[dutts72]

The question of whos the best is almost impossible to answer these days...what rules are we talking about? K1, Kickboxing, Superleague, Muay Thai etc etc.

Tournaments are definatley not the way to find out who is the best of the best. Superleague has a ranking system for the different weight catergories which is a great idea and that is what is missing in this sport world wide.

My pick for the top current 70kgs fighter in the world is Buakaw Buakaw Buakaw. Especially after he got ripped in the final.

"Muay Thai Never Dies"
"Life in Every Breath"
Ome Mane Padme Hum

[Voice]

quote:My pick for the top current 70kgs fighter in the world is Buakaw Buakaw Buakaw. Especially after he got ripped in the final.

ah yes, but again... rules, rules, rules...not at kickboxing, obviously!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

The problem with the ranking system is that unless you offer $100k (like in a tournament style event), the guys won't fight each other to gain a proper and fair ranking. It is almost as bad as boxing, but I guess at least in boxing, part of the contender process is the mandatory defence against #1 ranked.

Personally I like the tourneys as there is a champion on the night and the endurance of the fighter is an added factor. It is all about audience excitement, seeing Zambo fighting another no-name doesn't do it for me. I remember those local Max events in recent years that Chopper, JWP and Zambo won as great viewing. Who cares if no world title was at stake.
It is not as if kickboxing world titles are unified under similar rules as can be done for boxing's Queensbury rules.


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A man's gotta know his limitations...

Edited by - voice on 27 Jul 2005 11:24:21

Edited by - voice on 27 Jul 2005 12:02:11

[Matt J]

spot on dutts.
i have seen tourneys where one guy gets ko'd in one fight and a couple hours later is the winner of the event. ive seen guys barely able to walk to the ring in a final after injuries sustained in previous bouts and get stopped in about 20 seconds. what was the alternative? have the guy who lost take his place? gee thats fair, proves the guy who lost is the best if he ends up winning the tournament doesn it? throw in dud decisions (a k1 standard) and tournamnets esp k1 tournamnets should be viewed as fun tyo watch but wouldnt put too much stock in them.
people shouldnt be so obsessed these days with claiming who is "best". can you truly single out one guy? with rule variations in the mix, it's impossible. and tournaments don't clarify it. for sure we can name a top 5 fairly easily. picking one over others is too hard these days.



Edited by - Matt J on 27 Jul 2005 12:01:35

[Voice]

valid points Matt...hence my liking for tourney's as 'fun', a champion on the night does not mean world's best...you can't say those K1 GP events with the Islanders slugging it out and the Beast on fire were nothing short of exciting??

But agreed, tourneys are not the 'be all' to decide the world's best, but aren't a bad way to group the top 6-8 or so.

One interesting question though...do you agree that the 8 guys in the Max and HW lineups are indeed the 8 best in the world??

If so, didn't they mostly come from various qualifiers and regional 8 man events?
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A man's gotta know his limitations...

Edited by - voice on 27 Jul 2005 11:55:27

Edited by - voice on 27 Jul 2005 12:01:34

[dutts72]

Voice are you suggesting top fighters around the world want and get 100K a fight? I dont think so!



"Muay Thai Never Dies"
"Life in Every Breath"
Ome Mane Padme Hum

[Voice]

I'm saying that if you offer the winner of a tourney $100k, they will all flock to fight, as per the Max. And not just the top 3, Souwer winning shows how the underdog can scoop it.

These guys will not fight each other in a regional card for 5 or 10k. For crowd excitement offering a bigger purse to get them all in is not a bad option, and is affordable.

Hence, why haven't we seen JWP and Zambo fighting on a local main event ever? Doesn't seem a big logistical problem, but try organising it???

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Matt J]

Politics, not money.

[dutts72]

Thats due to contracts.

"Muay Thai Never Dies"
"Life in Every Breath"
Ome Mane Padme Hum

[Voice]

mmm, they are both K1 fighters, they could fight K1 rules on Ray's or Dixon's card.

Hey as an aside, I guess the really disappointing thing about the tourney's 3 x 3min format, is that now this length of fight is being used as default for many regular events, 5 x 3mins if lucky. The good old days of 10 x 3mins when main events were wars seem gone. A pro fighter should really be up for a good 5-7+ rounds, but I guess if they are not being well paid, who'd want to fight more than 3 rounds.

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[supermario]

That's definitely what I miss most about "the good ol' days", the length of the bouts, more specifically, main event bouts. They were 10x2 or 12x2 min rnds, even though I always felt the rnds were too short and should've been 3 mins instead. Maybe not 12, but 10 would've been spot on. A world-class pro fighter should be able to fight at a peak level for 30 minutes, I think that's not too lofty an expectation. However, as MattJ said, those days are gone. Too bad really, we could've seen some real wars between today's best fighters. 3x3 min rnds for super fights is just ridiculous, regardless of the possibility of extension rounds.

[dutts72]

I no this topic is old but i just got to watch the 1st few fights of the max final last night. Dam dowload of part 2 dropped out but will have it tomorrow.

Anyway I watched the Masato v Zam fight a couple of times and it was a great fight.

I had it 1st round draw/ 2nd Masato 10-9/ 3rd Masato 10-8

I think the kick that broke Masatos foot n Ankle was a body kick which was blocked with the knee...ouch!!!! It was clear after this that something was wrong and it wasnt until the final bell did he begin to limp. Masato must have been in tremendous pain during this fight and the typical Japanese fighting spirit was evident.

Only saw the 1st round and part of the 2nd of JWP but it looked pretty close at that stage so it will be great to see the whole card later tonight yippie.

"Muay Thai Never Dies"
"Life in Every Breath"
Ome Mane Padme Hum

[Kobayashi]

Hi Dutts,

I agree 200% with your scoring of the match and I also agree with the broken ankle being from a left middle kick that was blocked with the knee from Zambidis.

Enjoy the rest of the event when you get it. The Kraus X JWP fight kicks ass, so does the Buakaw X Kraus fight. Although, the rest aren't anything special =(

[Dynamite Drew]

i just got the video

masato made zambidis look very joe bloe pub fighter and very amatuerish

never seen a 'pro' fighter throw so many haymakers and not connect

infact i dont think zam even threw 1 straight punch the whole fight

masato has great skills and has a huge set of kahunas to keep fighting with a broken foot



We who are truely brave will never live in fear!

[Voice]

quote:masato made zambidis look very joe bloe pub fighter and very amatuerish

well done drew, never cease to amaze with some of those clankers you come up with. Outclassed, yes, fighting like a bum? You kidding right?

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[sniper]

i actually have the 04' and 05' final and also agree that masato was too good on the night. i also agree with the scoring just done. of course zambidis is a great fighter and no one can question his potential and ability but in these two fights he was beaten fair and square. great tournaments to watch. believe it or not i had souwer to win it as a big upset.

[Voice]

Yeah sure you did Snipper...<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
Actually, I must admit he did say to me the day before it that Souwer was his pick. I told Snip he was stupid, but there you go...you owe me a beer, err, soft drink, tonight mate...

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A man's gotta know his limitations...

[Dynamite Drew]

yeah im serious

espec in round 3 zam was swinging alot of haymakers trying to get KO

masato smart enough to stay out of range and to hit zam when he was open and drop him

zam seemed desperate after that throwing a lot of haymakers to no avail

We who are truely brave will never live in fear!

[BOXER]

For Dynamite Drew.
Why is it that whenever I see your name in these forums, my blood boils. Maybe it's because you are such a f***ing twat!!
Everyone here agreed that Zambidis lost fair and sqare but you just have to throw in your 2 cents worth don't you.
Has anybody ever met this clown?? I'd just love to meet this guy and just kick the sh*t out of him. He sounds like a "has-been" who never made it and has so much jealousy towards Zambidis that it's making him blind.

[BOXER]

For Dynamite Drew.
Why is it that whenever I see your name in these forums, my blood boils. Maybe it's because you are such a f***ing twat!!
Everyone here agreed that Zambidis lost fair and sqare but you just have to throw in your 2 cents worth don't you.
Has anybody ever met this clown?? I'd just love to meet this guy and just kick the sh*t out of him. He sounds like a "has-been" who never made it and has so much jealousy towards Zambidis that it's making him blind.

[Matt J]

has been? you're being a little generous there! to be a "has been" means you were once good! more like a "never was"! drew was a punching bag who now passes his time as a bogan comedian on here!

[Dynamite Drew]

this is a forum is it not ?

a forum is a place for people to to put across their views

seeing that this is a forum and we live in this great country called Australia where we are allowed to voice our opinion , i think ppl like boxer should wake up to themselves and stop making threats against people who speak up with a view or opinion that is different to their own

come on boxer , come and try to beat me up , you have posted that you will and im sure a judge would just love to see that when you are in court charged with assault

are you really that narrow minded that you just cant accept that not everyone agrees with your view and those that dont should be beaten up ?

as a person , i dont know and have never met Mike Zambidis so i cant comment on what type of person he is and what his character is like , but as a fighter i can make comments on what i have seen of him fighting and this forum is one such place where i can make such comments


as for calling me a 'has been' or 'never was' also shows your lack of knowledge about me

i have many a time stated here in this forum that i was never a champion but simply a guy that got in and had a go


boxer have you ever fought in the ring ?
matt have you ?

come on guys really , there is no need for this crap

just accept that others do have views and opinions that differ to yours and keep stupid comments and threats off this forum





Edited by - Dynamite Drew on 21 Aug 2005 13:48:13

[shtaka]

Dynamite Drew i havent been in hear for ages and wene i come on what do i see, u again saying the same old sh1t.

Id be upset to if i was u, if i got my head punched in at the gym day in day out, witch that might explain the reason y ur so stupied, i think uv had one to many to head but unfortunatlly its a bit late for u now and u have to live with it and now we are suffering!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Matt J]

ummm well yeah i have drew but i never flaunted it and acted like it made my opinion more valid.in fact i remember one of your comments "i know what i'm talking about because i've been in the ring" yeah well i know more so i must have been better eh?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> lol!

[Dynamite Drew]

matt

i believe the comment you are refering to was the one where i said ' have you ever fought in the ring ?' when i was reply to a comment by someone who has never fought in the ring and i was questioning their reasoning

im sure you know , just like me , that its 100X easier to sit and watch and say they should have done this and that than actually being in the ring and try and do it

matt, boxer , shtaka -- why is it necessary for you to make disparaging comments about me ? what have i done or said about you to warrant such comments ?

just accept the fact that i differ to your views and yes make constructive argument , im all for that , but please but leave out the crap like disparaging comments when you dont even know me


We who are truely brave will never live in fear!



Edited by - Dynamite Drew on 21 Aug 2005 20:40:40

[Matt J]

are you disputing that you are a bogan?

[BOXER]

Drew,

I might've been a bit harsh in my previous comment but mate, you bring the worst out of me whenever I read your comments. You're right, this is a forum where people express their views but never once have you said anything positive about anyone who deserved it.
I'm not what you call a "fan" of ZAMBIDIS but I've seen him fight many times and he's gotta lot of heart and potential. At least acknowledge that and stop all this bagging. Your main problem is that he's not an Aussie, not saying that you're racist or anything but you don't like the fact that alot of Aussies are fans of his. Deep down you know he's a good fighter but you like to stir the sh*t and get everybody aggrevated. Tell me if I'm wrong!!

[johnny_619]

He just cant stand the stereo-typical banwaggon "greek" support that he gets!

Ye we are patriotic and we love watching him fight and i'll admit im one sided, but who cares?

He is a fighter that i know for fact brings people to the shows, people watch him and admire.



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Greeks dont fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks!

[Dynamite Drew]

boxer

you obviously havent read all my posts correctly

if you go back and look at my post when zam ko'd kid i said from what i have seen it looked like a good clean shot

also , no i dont think he is that good , he just has a big KO punch

masato twice , kohi both beat him quite easily

alot just like to see a KO and thats what makes him popular

me , id rather see a skillful fight not just see a guy get ko'd from a haymaker
if i wanted to see it , i would just go to the roughest pubs in town on a friday nite and wait for the fights to starts


johhny , as for backing a fighter from your own heriatge i have no problem at all , its all good and makes for good atmosphere

i remember when i was fighting for Steve Jez and alot of his shows were at serbian club cuz he is serbian . the support we got from the local crowds was great and i wasnt even serbian




We who are truely brave will never live in fear!



Edited by - Dynamite Drew on 22 Aug 2005 19:49:52

[BOXER]

U see what I mean?? Why do you persist on using that word -"HAYMAKER".
Was it a haymaker that knocked out "Kid"?
I'm pretty sure that if Masato gave that same punch, you would've made it out to be the punch of the year but because it was Zambidis, obviously it HAD to be a haymaker!!!!
Anyway, I ain't gonna waste my time on this anymore - you've obviously got some issues to deal with so I'll leave you to it.

[johnny_619]

Man you obviously dont watch mike alot. Most of his last few wins have all been set up by kicks.

Just a big punch?

Mate if you know someone that saw masato after the fight ask them what colour his thigh was and thast got nothing to do with his foot.

Ive said it and i'll say it again, the most skilfull fighter can get as many scoring shots as they like but when Mike Zambidis lands one on them they know they've been hit.

If he had one big trick in the bag K1 wouldnt keep on asking him back, he will be back on the circuit before he comes back to melbourne...

I agree with someone who previously wrote a loss like this can wake him up. Maybe he could have got away with a few things against easier opponents.

Another question, if K1 doesnt allow JWP and Mike to fight why can Kraus, Choppa and JWP fight in the superleague?

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Greeks dont fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks!

[Tony]

Guys, why bother debating with Drew about this? His "logic" is simple.
Any punch Zambidis throws is a haymaker.
Any win he has was by luck. His losses have been "easy" wins for the opponent, depsite the fact absolutely everybody on the planet thinks the first masato and kohi fights were either close or controversial.
Yet he obsesses over JWP despite the fact Zambidis has a better K1 record.

Face it, Zambidis could win the K1 Max next year and Drew will still trash him.