Combat Sports - NSW

[schnaxxl]

As of 1.1.10, the NSW Combat Sports legislation now covers Muay Thai, MMA, BJJ etc.
Info re: registration and other requirements is now on the Sport and Rec website:
http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/industry_combat.asp

[Graciebarra4]

yehh i read about that a while ago. just in time for the UFC to hit sydney.

[KL]

http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/assets/pubs/industry/combatsports_registration.pdf

So trainers and seconds have to pay $80 to register? Is this only if they corner pros, or does it apply to amateurs' trainers as well?

[Lucy Tui]

Amatuers will be run by the sanctioning bodies with all amatuer having to wear head gear shin pads (wetsuit style accepted).
If you want to fight without head gear/shins you will have to apply for professional licence and be over 18years old...
This where trainers need to think about their fighters, what will happen when you get a fighter who has had 0-3 fights and wants to fight pro because he doesnt want to wear head gear / shinguards..
30years in NSW without head gear for amatuer kickboxing etc, now legslation says we have to wear it.(No major injuries) IMO I dont like the idea..but thats the law...
Speaking with some of the trainers they want their fighters to turn pro with very little fights..
Question????where do the fighters who dont want to wear head gear/shin pads and have only had 0-10fights and wanting to turn professional,where is there amateur career back ground... Once they register professional there will be No Turning Back..to amatuer..Before we had fighters with over 20 fights then turning pro..but with this new legislation there will be NO AMATUER FIGHTERS or RANKINGS coming through..If all the trainers want to turn their fighters Proffessional...mmmm will be interesting..
You are only allowed to fight from age 14-18yrsold as junior. Senior 18-35yrsold
You get your beginner fighters age 20-30years wanting to step in the ring had no fights
you have trainers who want to turn their fighters professional because they do not want them to wear head gear you have trainers who want to turn their fighters amatuers with head gear/shinguards for the safety of the fighter and because of the new laws?????????
Question what would you want for your fighter if you are their trainer????????????
Regards
Lucy Tui
Professional fighters $100 to register with Combat Sport NO HEAD GEAR / SHINGUARDS World pro level without amatuer career 30-60fights (pending on individual)
Amatuer fighters $50 to register with sanctioning body Head Gear/ Shin Guards you have a chance for NSW titles Australian, Sth Pacific, Commonwealth, World Title..20-30fights to reach World Title for amatuer...(pending on individual,everyone is different this is just a estimate average fighter.)

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Kim,
Trainers who just want their fighters to be amatuer, register with sanctioning body of their choice. Sanctioning bodies will make sure all their members are registered and have medicals/bloods.The sanctioning bodies will look after the amatuer side of things.
Combat sport will look after the Professional fighters/officials/Promoters/Trainers...
If you have fighters turning pro will be a good idea to get Professional Trainers licence.
WKBF and other sanctioning bodies will be running seminars for Judging/Referring/Trainers/Promoters we will be supplying them with certificates then you go to the Combat Sport and register as professional trainer, promoter, judge/ referee..
Hope this has help clear up somethings with NEW CHANGES for New Year.
Take care
Lucy Tui
Ps* If anyone interested in participating in WKBF seminars with 30 years of experience in the sport Official/ Promoter, have experienced referees, Our seminars will cover Referring / Judging MMA, Kickboxing, K1 Rules, Modthai, FullThai, judging please contact me on 0406879985 or lucytui@hotmail.com

[ChrisQ]

Haven't had a chance to compare myself, but does anyone know if this NSW legislation is similar to the VIC legislation?

[AUSSIE JOE]

can some one answer this question for me please

my daughter is a fighter she's had 5 fights so far she is 17 yr old but all her opponants are 22-26 yrs old .now if girls over 18 go pro for the fact so they dont have to wear the gear and my daughter is matched with a over 18 pro does she wear the gear and her opponant doesnt ,whats the opoint of the fight when there not evenly matched and it does get restrictive wearing all the protective gear .

[ChrisQ]

I can see no circumstances in which your daughter would be fighting someone who wasn't wearing gear if she was.
Common sense would prevail...

[Hellfighter]

unless your daughter turned pro, they would/should never meet

[Steve P]

Lucy,

Great idea on the seminar for officials. Let me know if it is on.

Steve (not Hammerfist)

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Aussie Joe,

Your daughter has to wear head gear until she turns professional.
If there is a 18-20yr old who has not turned pro they both fight with head gear.
Only Professional fight each other the same with the Amatuer no matter what age you are...
You can be 30years old and have your first 20 fights with head gear if you want to remain amatuer.
You can be 18years old and be a Professional,and fight without head gear,
it depends on your trainer when is a good time to turn professional.
I personally think that after 10fights you should not wear head gear/shinpads and still be amatuer...unfortunetly with the Combat Sport NSW they want to have all amatuer wearing head gear for the safety, as I mentioned last post, 30years in kickboxing there has never been any major injuries that I have seen without head gear shin pads...
Regards
Lucy Tui

[samui]

I believe,as i read in another post,fights were held in NSW last night.Did the fighters wear all the protective gear?

[Lucy Tui]

I was informed that the show in NewCastle was a Amatuer night...I heard no one wore head gear/shinpads..Dont know what happened there...?????
Regards
Lucy Tui

[ChrisQ]

Lucy you don't come off as being overly supportive of the new legislation.

By chance did you make a public submission during the consultation process? There more than likely would've been a discussion paper released prior to the formulation of the legislation.

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Chris,
when you have watched kickboxing in NSW evole like some of us over the
30years in the sport it makes you wonder why the change (there has been no major injuries in all the disciplines involved)..The past 5-10years especially, when MMA, no shin guards/ shin pads, muaythai and women fighting become a big step forward for NSW.
I did submitt my thoughts on the change during the consultation process, to no reply.
I know some stakeholders knew about it and did the same as myself and there were percentage of stakeholders who did not know about it...When we did findout we only had 5days to submitt something...
It wasnt advertised very well. I consulted with Craig Waller head of Combat Sport he said it was advertised in the Sydney Hearald?????????how many people read the Sydney Herald that are stakeholders in the sport...??????????????
Regards
Lucy Tui
Ps* The only positive thing that came out of the Combat Sport, is Professionals wear NO Shin Pads, women can Box, kickboxing, Muaythai...
I may sound like by my post Im not overly supportive of the new legislation there are quite a few stakeholders that feel the same that I have spoken to over the weeks of process by the Combat Sport.....

[samui]

I was informed that the show in NewCastle was a Amatuer night...I heard no one wore head gear/shinpads..Dont know what happened there...?????
Regards
Lucy TuiWell,the legislation is either in or its not.

[promoboss]

Lucy
when i first read the act it talked about stopping people fighting after the age of 35 is that correct?

[Steve P]

For those that want to read up

The act is here:

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au

Go to search function, type in Combat Sports, you will need to read BOTH the Act & Regulations. The Act says what has to be done, the Regulations say how it will be done.

Combat Sports Authority website here with a few frequent Q & A's

http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/industry_boxing.asp

See media release from Minister on 27 November 2008 (you'll need to scroll down)

http://www.communities.nsw.gov.au/ministers/minister_sportrec.asp

I don't want to re-invent the wheel about how old you can be as a fighter, what is pro/am, what sports are covered etc, so have a look at this old thread

http://www.kickboxermag.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9357&highlight=Regulations+Combat+Sports+regulations+20 09

[Lucy Tui]

Thanks for the info Steve.

Promoboss I guess it depends on fitness etc...Bob Mirovic fought to a ripe old age 39-40 spoke to him at mundines last show he said he still wants to fight on...thats is a perfect example when you are over the age limit...(he looked fitter than ever)

Samui. mmm that is what I was thinking as well..legislation Jan 1st meant to be enforced.
It will be the old saying "Well they had a show without head gear etc" why can't we??...

Regards
Lucy Tui

[samui]

Hi Lucy,i didnt mean to sound abrupt but i was heaps tired and ended the post rather short.

Cheers.

[Steve P]

I got my trainers license recently with the Combat Sports Authority, and it was made quite clear they were serious about enforcing the headgear/shinpad rule. In this day and age, all they need do is organise a copy of a fight video to show non compliance at an amateur event (or event see a clip from someone's phone on Youtube), and rather than prosecute you for breaching the rules, they cancel your promoters/trainers license.

Rather than them have to prove you acted poorly, the onus is back on the trainer or promoter to show that they should hold the permit. If there was footage available to show they disregarded the legislation, I would imagine the chances of regaining the license would be slim.

I am not commenting on any show, but this is the way they would do it. I remember being involved in a Muaythai show in 1998 on the NSW Central Coast. First thing they went for was the tape, and the tapes disappeared. With Youtube etc these days, promoters may not be so lucky.

With the amount of kickboxing, thai boxing, amateur and pro boxing, and MMA events out there, I don't think they would have enough inspectors. I know they are currently recruiting for these casual positions. If you are a casual inspector with the combat sports authority, you can't also hold trainer/cornerman licenses due to conflict of interest.

[samui]

Hi Steve,

Since when do you need a trainers license? and what if you dont hold a trainers licence? Does that mean you have to shut your private gym down until you get one?

[Steve P]

Hi Steve,

Since when do you need a trainers license? and what if you dont hold a trainers licence? Does that mean you have to shut your private gym down until you get one?

Lucy hit the nail on the head with her summary that the combat sports authority administer, mostly, pro events. However, they do have rules for amateurs also.

From the act, a trainer (in the definition of industry participant) at Section 4 of the Act, is "a trainer, being a person who supervises the training or instruction of a combatant or who accompanies a combatant into the ring or onto the contest arena to give advice or assistance during a professional combat sport contest".

No mention of amateur trainer (or fitness trainer for boxercise etc). It appears the trainers/cornerman in amateur bouts do not need licenses, the control of them rests with the sanctioner (at best). Remember there are still rules for amateur events, such as headgear and shinpads.

The act also describes a combatant (in the definitions) "means a person who engages in a combat sport as a contestant in professional combat sport contests."

Where this will have impact is interstate fighters coming into NSW. The trainer will need a license, and my experience was about a six week turnaround so no short notice call-ups.

[samui]

Ok,thanks.

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Samui,

Its always good to get a trainers licence, whether it be from the Combat Sport or Sanctioning body,If you live in NSW, WKBF will be running seminars, for trainers etc...
if you are interested. just setting up dates and place seminars will be held.
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Steve P]

In the downloads section on this web page, is the application form "Application for Combat Sports Industry Participant’s Registration or Renewal of Registration form".

http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/industry_boxing.asp

To get the trainers license, you need:

- Application form completed.
- A couple of colour passport size photos.
- Current first aid certificate
- Knowledge of the role of trainer/second. There is a book you will be quizzed on, with such things as how much tape, the difference between KO/Groggy fighter/Punch drunk syndrome, etc etc.

I have a copy of the study guide, so if anyone wants a copy send me a PM and I will email you a pdf of it within a few days.

I got told that heaps of people who get the license never intend to be a fight trainer, just personal trainers who can put out there in their advertising that they are registered trainer of pro fighters. At least when the industry regulates itself (through gradings etc) you need to put some time in before you can call yourself a trainer.

[Hollywood1]

Just got my Judge/Inspector license :D

[Extreme Muay Thai Gym]

[QUOTE=Steve P;276746]I got my trainers license recently with the Combat Sports Authority, and it was made quite clear they were serious about enforcing the headgear/shinpad rule. In this day and age, all they need do is organise a copy of a fight video to show non compliance at an amateur event (or event see a clip from someone's phone on Youtube), and rather than prosecute you for breaching the rules, they cancel your promoters/trainers license.
QUOTE]

How would they cancel your promoters/trainers license if you dont have one......also i see a lot less Pro's fighting on NSW fight nights from now on. Im still reading through and trying to understand the new legislation from a view point as a trainer and as a promoter......

[Steve P]

Gary,

If you want to be a promoter for pro fights, you need to be licensed. See the DSR website in previous link. The application form is there.

If you want to be a trainer for pro's - same. You need a license.

If you want to put on a fight night with pro's, you need a permit. See division 1 of the act.

This would be a good topic for a future article in IK - for local fighters/trainers, and also upper level fighters/trainers likely to travel to NSW.

[Steve P]

Just got my Judge/Inspector license :D

Wet T Shirt events?

[Lucy Tui]

The conflict of interest is the Combat Sports running the Martial Arts here...Having checked out the 9 members of the commitee and then having guys as inspectors what experience do they have??????????????????
Huge CONFLICT...

[Extreme Muay Thai Gym]

Just a question to the Combat Sports people, was the Martial Arts that bad in NSW that all these rules had to be brought in? Im not being smart but i just want to know what stats etc they used, now im all for safety and protecting people from harm but its my choice to step in the ring.
I have had over 21 years of Martial Arts training, hold two very high ranks in two different Martial Arts and i have never seen any real serious accident's from fighting, of course there will be one or two examples but nothing to the level of bring in a new legislation to stop it.
As i said before in my last post, im still going through and trying to understand why they have brought this in. If its here to stay then fine i'll work with it but i just want to know why they brought it in. Because as a trainer/promoter this will effect my fulltime living.
Regards
Gary

[Steve P]

Fight sports was changing, I guess. They tolerated kickboxing when it first started, but Muaythai was banned in NSW for quite a while. The WMC got around this by stating it was not a ringsport, but a martial art (which was of course ungoverned). I guess there was a loss of power.

Then there was a push for females to fight in NSW.

Then there was the introduction of cage fighting.

To allow females to fight, and regulate Muaythai and MMA they brought in this umbrella legislation which covers everything.

Would absolutely love an article on this so we all know the impact.

[Lucy Tui]

There simply was not enough stakeholders involved in the change..Everyone I spoke to had no idea what was going on...I do believe if we all sat around a table and come to a happy medium, people like Gary would not be upset..Trainers mentioned they will put there fighters on interstate shows..Good example JWP is having a show with padded and non-padded fights...I would say the beginners would be padded. I still believe have 0- 5/10 fights padded, then off comes the pads and still be amatuer with pads off...(the safety is still in place & everyone is happy)..If you need to compare the difference between fighters from am/pro let the MC explain to the public the difference.. so in so will be fighting a amatuer state title...4x2min rds so forth...
At the moment what is happening that I can see fighters are turning professional to far to early.(just so they can wear no pads)
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Extreme Muay Thai Gym]

I agree with Lucy, also am i correct in saying that if i have a promotion with say 9 Am fights and then 1 Pro fight i have to bring in the Combat Sports Ref and Judges just for 1 Pro fight? If so how much is that? And i believe that is a slap in the face of the Sanctioning Ref & Judges.
Also with what Lucy is saying in her last post, if i had a fighter who has had no fights and i turn them Pro just to avoid pads/head gear etc who will they be fighting? fighters with 15+ fights? (there may be a few fighters with the same record but how many times can you fight the same fighter, it really cuts the choice of whom you can fight) unless ALL Am fighters turn pro, then you will have heaps to pick from.
I agree more communcation is needed and for Promoters/trainers need to sit down and talk openly about it.

Anyway my 2c worth
Gary

[Hollywood1]

Wet T Shirt events?



i wish........

[gvmartialarts]

I think everyone in every state should follow this closely, and talk to their relevent government reps. often...

[Steve P]

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/web/newwebparl.nsf/iframewebpages/Hansard+-+Daily+Transcripts

Have a look at the WA hansard for the legislative assembly for 14 October 2009.

It will open a .pdf document.

Type in the word "combat" in the search function and and go straight to the proposed changes there......

Rules of the contest and given to an administrator who can approve/disapprove of the rules of the game with the flick of a pen.

Here are the current WA Bills. Type in "combat" in the search function, and you will see the amendment.

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/web/newwebparl.nsf/iframewebpages/Bills+-+Current

Whilst the Act may not look that drastic, nor did the NSW model. It was the subsequent regulations which did the damage.

If WA is starting to follow NSW (and the wording in the Act is the same terminology as NSW) which state is next?

[Steve P]

Two political speeches on the topic.
One in the NSW Legislative Assembly, next in the Council.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/0/0EA70F2EC57A7C7FCA25751B00062FC1

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/0/13F89464CFBFD49CCA25751C001D04AA

One Weak As P-I-S-S Politician (representing the opposition) says they don't understand it, and they don't oppose it. Seriously WTF.

"The Hon. TREVOR KHAN [10.16 p.m.]: I lead for the Opposition on the Combat Sports Bill 2008 and can indicate that the Opposition will not oppose the bill. The Opposition is not comfortable with the bill or indeed certain of the activities that it seeks to regulate."

Further into the transcript they call MMA "human cockfighting". Hiro would be pleased.

They even use the comparison - if there are risks in riding motor cycles, and law says you need a helmet, then the same thought applies to headgear in fight sports.

There is talk about an old English case also, on "consenting to violence" in sport.

"...... the comments of Lord Templeman in the House of Lords case R v Brown (1993), which some members may be familiar with, to illuminate this point;

In earlier days some other forms of violence were lawful and when they ceased to be lawful they were tolerated until well into the nineteenth century. Duelling and fighting were at first lawful and then tolerated provided the protagonists were voluntary participants. But, where the results of these activities were the maiming of one of the participants, the defence of consent never availed the aggressor. A maim was bodily harm whereby a man was deprived of the use of any member of his body which he needed to use in order to fight but a bodily injury was not a maim merely because it was a disfigurement. The act of maim was unlawful because the King was deprived of the services of an able-bodied citizen for the defence of the realm. Violence which maimed was unlawful despite consent to the activity which produced the maiming."

And the Christian Democratic Party were the most vocal.

The CDP remind me of US Democrats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fv5I2rmtuU

This is starting to get too hard, and my interest is starting to grow in lawn bowls and La Crosse.

Who knows, maybe one day I will be a three time world champion and get onto a Fox Sports event. I might have to make up a bit of BS though to get into the tourney.

[ChrisQ]

And the Christian Democratic Party were the most vocal.

The CDP remind me of US Democrats.




How do you figure this Steve? I think your meaning the CDP reminds you of the US Republicans (both right wing parties).

[Steve P]

Chris,

Comments about CDP related to the republicans/zombies in the Youtube clip.
I better leave this one alone, two things you don't argue about are religion and politics and they are all over this.

[Lucy Tui]

No disrespect Steve, its sounds like blah,blah,blah..
We need to reach the real problem...30years no major injuries in contact sport.
Now they want to put headgear/shinpads on combatants that have a very good amatuer record and want to stay amatuer until they get a World am title, now have to submit to head gear..... Question????????????????????why the change??????????????????
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Booga]

or u do wat i did! i moved to qld a few weeks ago!!! :D
didnt have to do with the new rules but dam it worked out well for us!! hehe

[Steve P]

No disrespect Steve, its sounds like blah,blah,blah..


Lucy,

I did what no-one else appears to have done - research who brought it in and on what basis. They call it "know your enemy".

If you want change there is only one way. All sanctioning bodies, and promoters meet and actually talk.

They come up with an "agreed" petition, and get every gym member to sign it. Then the petition goes to every fight night, and signed by visitors. The agreed grounds could include such things as headgear/shinpads for first 5 fights, then up to mutual agreement between fighters.

Take the petition to the opposition party, and use people power.

Over to the sanctioners and promoters - if they want change.

If you want to get support from the independants, find out what their buttons are and press them. Offer free classes to disadvanted youth in their electorate. Scream blue murder when they don't back you up in the local media.

[Lucy Tui]

Yeah well! I remember 24years ago I did just that..Wran Government were in power then..It has taken them 24 years to change..Women allowed to fight.NSW.I was able to get over 4000 signatures it took a few shows and local business to get signatures..(6months hard yaka). Nothing was done.....
Maybe the local politicians today are a bit more open and forth coming..I don't know if I would be around for another 24 years... I guess you call it peoples power..in numbers.
But I guess it is worth another try...mmmm..have I still got the passion I had then...
Regards
Lucy Tui
What politician would actually take notice???????????????.....

[Steve P]

I'd start with your local Mike Baird and sound him out. I am happy to come along. There is also an MP in the Coffs Harbour area (from memory) that had a few amateur boxing fights. At a federal level, Tony Abbott had some boxing fights going through uni.

All promoters/trainers in NSW would have to come on board first. How about calling a meeting?

One problem you will have is Muaythai did not cause the introduction of headgear/shinpads, I believe from reading those speeches the politicians were more worried about MMA. To the casual observer, there is a significant difference in the gloves worn by the two sports, and it really is not a good look to them to watch a fighter on the ground, with his head pinned against the canvass, continually rocked with punches.

If legislation is changed, is it for both Muaythai and MMA or just Muaythai. I would suggest just kickboxing, as cagefighting did appear real popular in those speeches I uploaded. Kickboxing really got no mention whatsoever in their speeches, and appears to be caught up in the wide ranging rules.

I think shinpads/headgear for first 5 fights and up to BOTH fighters discretion after that could be achievable with kickboxing in Mod Thai rules. In the eyes of a politician there would be a huge gap between Mod Thai and FTR due to the elbow strikes.

And avoid those politicians outlined in those speeches who were vocal.

[Hellfighter]

shinpads are a waste of time if you're going to be throwing knees... may as well wear the whole fruit suit

[gvmartialarts]

Good work Steve P.

[Steve P]

Guys,

I was speaking with Lucy about how the legislation was brought in without community consultation, and without medical evidence supporting the need. I remembered there was a medical study a while ago in the UK that found the risk of injury with Muaythai is no worse than karate or taekwondo.

Here is the study - could be useful for some when chasing gym insurance etc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724381/

Funny how full contact karate and taekwondo aren't covered by the legislation.

[Hellfighter]

because they are an "art" and not brutal as has been portrayed

when I did the National Coaching course, I was the first MuayThai stylist to complete it and it was useless to me, because the government had already made their recommendations on which arts they would back

[Steve P]

because they are an "art" and not brutal as has been portrayed

when I did the National Coaching course, I was the first MuayThai stylist to complete it and it was useless to me, because the government had already made their recommendations on which arts they would back



The act has "combat sport" defined as

(a) boxing (or fist fighting) in any of its styles,
(b) kick boxing in any of its styles,
(c) any sport, martial art or activity in which each contestant in a contest, display or exhibition of that sport, art or activity is required to strike, kick, hit, grapple with, throw or punch one or more other contestants and that is prescribed by the regulations,
(d) sparring in any category covered in paragraph (a)–(c), except to the extent prescribed by the regulations.

These are the "sports" covered by the regulations.

(a) Wrestling,
(b) Muay Thai,
(c) Thai Boxing,
(d) Mixed Martial Arts (MMA),
(e) Ultimate Fighting,
(f) Cage Fighting,
(g) Ju-jitsu or Jiu-jitsu.

Problems with the legislation are:

We have full contact karate allowing kicks to the head (karate is not covered), however we target jiu-jitsu but leave alone other grappling arts such as Judo and HapKiDo.

I see a real loophole here - Savate. Not kickboxing (a ring sport) but a martial art. it is not a "prescribed" martial art, as is required in Paragraph C of the definition. Boom Boom.

Could we see a whole lot of Savate events popping up shortly? That would stuff them.

Those in Sydney would probably remember the Full contact Kung Fu from a few years back. Looked like kickboxing to me, but it was a martial arts event. How would that go?

[TrentG81]

Ive had a few fights all with out pads now if I want to continue to fight amateur but guys I have faced are pro does it technically mean I am not an amateur or is it all from now on?

[TrentG81]

Another thing, is padded fights going to appeal to fans and are promoters not going to put padded fights on if most are registering as pro?

What I guess I am asking is if other fightrs and I choose to remain amateur then will we suffer and not get on many shows??

[J.N.I]

Trent it's like this forget what you have done in the past it starts now there are no grey areas when it comes to pros or amateurs, if you registered with the Combat Sports Authority you are a pro if not you are an amateur and in the Authorities eyes it is only a registration nothing else no records, purse or experience come into play with the registration.My first show for the year is a Pro/Am show because at the moment there are major teething problems for us Promoters and the Authority

[samui]

J.N.I,will people fighting on your show be wearing headgear and shin pads? And,also,do you feel it odd that they dont insist on the body armour and elbow pads as well?

[samui]

The act has "combat sport" defined as

(a) boxing (or fist fighting) in any of its styles,
(b) kick boxing in any of its styles,
(c) any sport, martial art or activity in which each contestant in a contest, display or exhibition of that sport, art or activity is required to strike, kick, hit, grapple with, throw or punch one or more other contestants and that is prescribed by the regulations,
(d) sparring in any category covered in paragraph (a)–(c), except to the extent prescribed by the regulations.

These are the "sports" covered by the regulations.

(a) Wrestling,
(b) Muay Thai,
(c) Thai Boxing,
(d) Mixed Martial Arts (MMA),
(e) Ultimate Fighting,
(f) Cage Fighting,
(g) Ju-jitsu or Jiu-jitsu.

Problems with the legislation are:

We have full contact karate allowing kicks to the head (karate is not covered), however we target jiu-jitsu but leave alone other grappling arts such as Judo and HapKiDo.

I see a real loophole here - Savate. Not kickboxing (a ring sport) but a martial art. it is not a "prescribed" martial art, as is required in Paragraph C of the definition. Boom Boom.

Could we see a whole lot of Savate events popping up shortly? That would stuff them.

Those in Sydney would probably remember the Full contact Kung Fu from a few years back. Looked like kickboxing to me, but it was a martial arts event. How would that go?

Im not sure how Savate would stuff them.If it was true Savate,wearing the shoes and that tight,lycra outfit,they have no juristriction,but hold a Savate night and turn up in Thai boxing shorts,monkon,throw elbows,etc wont fool anyone.

Just like MT in NSW,it had to be MT all the way and seperate from kickboxing as to avoid persecution.

Just be thankfull you can do MT in NSW,a special thanks to JNI for that.

Guys,this legislation is here,like it or not,to be honest,i think all amatures should wear pads just like in the WMC world amatures.

I still dont understand why they missed the elbow pads and body armour ,and not making them manditory,i think your very lucky its not.

Just my thoughts.

[J.N.I]

samui as I said in my earlier post there is some major teething problems or should I say it's a major transition period which will be carefully monitored by the Authority to which some changes I believe will have to be made. My show in particular will be issued with a Sports Combat Authority permit for pros but will also have amateurs on it. I have been in constant talks with the authority and I will run my show accordingly but the feed back that I have had from certain parties has been mixed it's not all doom and gloom as some people have made it out to be. Alot of trainers I have spoken to are very happy to register their fighters and others could not be bothered with it.

[Hellfighter]

the last couple of years in China people wouldn't attend MuayThai events, so they advertised "Free Fighting" and when the MuayThai fights were about to start they explained to the crowd that due to the rules, there would be no ground work in these bouts... over time, the crowds kept coming and now they are holding MuayThai only events

[Extreme Muay Thai Gym]

samui as I said in my earlier post there is some major teething problems or should I say it's a major transition period which will be carefully monitored by the Authority to which some changes I believe will have to be made. My show in particular will be issued with a Sports Combat Authority permit for pros but will also have amateurs on it. I have been in constant talks with the authority and I will run my show accordingly but the feed back that I have had from certain parties has been mixed it's not all doom and gloom as some people have made it out to be. Alot of trainers I have spoken to are very happy to register their fighters and others could not be bothered with it.

Hey John,
Did you have to get seperate judges/refs in for your Pro fights from the SCA? If so what did they cost? My understanding is the Am fighters are covered by the Sancutioning body and then if you have Pro fights you have to have SCA judges /refs? Is this correct mate

Gary

[Steve P]

OK - a quick question for Hammer (hope he reads these threads). Will Fox televise amateur NSW bouts if fighters are in headgear/shinpads? I see very few (if any) amateur boxing support bouts on tele with headgear? If the answer is no, NSW will lose bigger events.

The reality is, to the viewing public, there is no difference between amateur and pro if they dress the same. There has been plenty of discussion in threads about the difference between pro/am, and it all comes down to payment not performance.

Will Evo come to NSW with interstate fighters, and put them in headgear if there is a risk it won't be televised?

The problem with this legislation is it is biased, examples are it covers jiu jutsu but doesn't cover judo (a pretty similar style). It covers Muay Thai, but full contact Kung Fu (which looks like kickboxing) is not covered. Bare knuckle karate where you can be shin kicked to the head is not covered. In a previous post I uploaded a link to a medical study showing Muay Thai is no more dangerous that full contact karate.

There was poor (read almost nil) consultation with stakeholders. There was no medical evidence supporting the introduction of this stuff, only politicians talking about "human cockfighting" - like they'd know.

It wouldn't have hurt for the legislators to put together a fact sheet or put something on their website. As it is, poor legislation, poor consultation, poor understanding, and poor communication.

If the opportunity of televised bouts is reduced, there will be less money for promoters and less exposure for fighters. Will pro fighters consider moving?

I will be interested to see how much $$$ a promoter has to fork out for a pro bout - remember they have to have a license, then a permit for the event, then pay licensed ringside officials, then the CSA inspector then contribute to the police that attend via the user pays policy.

Next step will probably have dictated mandatory insurance levels for these events - professional liability (say $1mil cover) and public liability (say $5 mil cover). Not cheap stuff, and not beyond the realms of possibility.

Just because it is in, doesn't mean we have to (a) like it, and, (b) accept it in total. The legislation might stay, but there can be variations/exceptions introduced as amendments.

If laws didn't change, you'd all still go to the beach in neck to knee swimwear. Thanks for the point samui about Savate, but I was making a point there were gaps, I was not serious. It was a joke, just like how the legislation was brought in.

My thoughts are Mod Thai (dropping the elbows) without headgear after 5 fights is a choice that should be available to the fighter.

Anyway, my throat is getting sore from all this shouting, and I have cold Crownies in the fridge.

[Hellfighter]

still go to the beach in neck to knee swimwear

some people should be made to have a licence if they don't wear that





me included

[samui]

Lol,no worries,Steve,i wasnt having a dig at your post but someone out there may seriously consider doing something similar and i just thought id give an opinion on that.

JNI,i think its great you are still promoting and will push the sport forward,not trying to sound like a suck,but after the hurdles you went through before,you must be getting sick of jumping them by now.

For what its worth,thank you for promoting and sticking with a Thai martial art we all love.

I dont think i will post anything else as i think for me its a case of lets wait and see what happens.

Good luck with your promotion.

[TrentG81]

Thanks John for answering my questions?

[Lucy Tui]

Hi to all industry people concerned,
Have just got off the phone to Craig Waller concerning MMA fights.
You do not have to wear headgear or shinpads amatuer/pro when fighting MMA.
But you do have to be over 18years to do MMA...
Head gear, shin pads, knee pads, elbow pads, for muaythai, Fullthai Amatuer only 14-18yrs over 18years want to stay amatuer the same as above. When doing K1 rules, kickboxing, just head gear/shinguards.
Professional none of the above but have to be 18years and over register with Combat Sports.
If you need to speak to anyone concerning any of the above ring Combat Sports ask to speak to Craig Waller.CEO. on 0290063852.
Hope this helps..
Finally got it organised as far as procedure to new Combat Sports.
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Hellfighter]

nice work Lucy

[Steve P]

Hi to all industry people concerned,
Have just got off the phone to Craig Waller concerning MMA fights.
You do not have to wear headgear or shinpads amatuer/pro when fighting MMA.
But you do have to be over 18years to do MMA...
Head gear, shin pads, knee pads, elbow pads, for muaythai, Fullthai Amatuer only 14-18yrs over 18years want to stay amatuer the same as above. When doing K1 rules, kickboxing, just head gear/shinguards.
Professional none of the above but have to be 18years and over register with Combat Sports.
If you need to speak to anyone concerning any of the above ring Combat Sports ask to speak to Craig Waller.CEO. on 0290063852.
Hope this helps..
Finally got it organised as far as procedure to new Combat Sports.
Regards
Lucy Tui

Lucy,

I have gone through both the Act and Regulation and nowhere is it published about what safety gear has to be worn. It is clear the legislation leaves this to the Combat Sports Authority to decide.

Craig Waller as CEO makes the decision (probably with the Minister for Sport) about safety gear.

What I can't work out is why in amateur Muay Thai do you have to wear shin pads, knee pads, elbow pads and headgear when in MMA you don't. It appears MMA been given an unfair advantage over MT in NSW.

In the attached photo is the copy of the decision in the legislation giving the power to the CSA.

Seems a bit rough, considering all the speeches in parliament when they were bringing it in were about making cagefighting safer.

[Hellfighter]

What I can't work out is why in amateur Muay Thai do you have to wear shin pads, knee pads, elbow pads and headgear when in MMA you don't. It appears MMA been given an unfair advantage over MT in NSW.

sounds like what many of my mates who teach and fight MuayThai in the US are going thru... MMA going leaps and bounds, MuayThai kept back as it's too brutal

[Voice]

Ironic isn't it how the the 'human cockfighting' in a cage got politicians fired up to introduce this legislation yet MMA goes without protection and the established stand-up arts get to wear the Michelin suits.

[Lucy Tui]

Hi,
I asked that question? concerning no head gear for mma fighters. Answer: It would be more dangerous for MMA fighters wearing headgear, because of different techniques used when doing ground fighting..mmm..
So I go back to Kickboxing, muaythai.FTR...about them having to wear headgear..he said because it is safe and thats what Combat Sport want so the public awareness of defining amatuer from professional... My reply it is unfair....his reply well Lucy, here is a example of what unfair is but it is now legislation that licencee in hotels didnt like, that is drinks to be poured in plastic cups after 10pm. So change to wearing head gear is to do with AMA who really want to stop all combantant sports because they think it is unsafe...Combat Sport just want a happy medium that we are to wear headgear...etc.
and to work with the industry..mmm.. I also mentioned they are forcing fighters to turn Pro because of the headgear etc..fighters who have had 0-5fights...answer. No we are not forcing fighters, it is their choice to not wear headgear..It is the NEW LEGISLATION so we need to abide by it. They will be enforcing pentalities in the future...mmmm.
I said thats not DEMOCRACY, his reply NO its BRUECRACY (sorry about spelling)....that is how it is, alot of things are unfair but we have to live with it..........everyday...
Ended with get anyone in the industry who are unsure of everything to ring COMBAT SPORT...
Regards
Lucy Tui
Hope that helps to understand why them and us..lol's

[Lucy Tui]

Ps* No Craig Waller does not make the decisions it is brought to the board then passed on to Minister...etc...He wants to have a workable relations with stakeholders.
I suggest then, we as sanctioning bodies, promoters,trainers fighters have a meeting like town hall and get them Combat Sport committe members tell us all at once what we can or can not do....That then builds a bridge for all of us to start moving forward...
All matters to be brought forward and discussed like it should have in the first place..
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Lucy Tui]

Also mentioned when they have amatuer world events in thailand or other countries around the world they all wear protective gear....True / False end of argument...
Doesnt matter if we have been wearing No protective head gear for 30years in NSW.
It has NOW CHANGED as of JANUARY 1st 2010 in NSW. All other states are run by different legislations...I mentioned Victoria ruling. wear shinpads until 5 fights then they come off you can be Amatuer/Pro it does not matter...NO protective gear...
UNBELIEVABLE BURACRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Steve P]

Lucy,

We can give it a run or little it slip past.

The labor government brought this in with glowing speeches protecting fighters in cagefighting and the need for headgear. They create the legislation, but give the safety equipment decision for each sport over to the Combat Sports Authority.

They were brutal on cagefighting in their political speeches, and didn't really mention kickboxing.

And the combat sports authority ignores the "spirit" of the legislation, does not introduce safety gear for MMA but goes over the top for kickboxing.

An easy option is questions from a liberal minister to the sports minister, in question time in parliament, on why why legislate jiu jutsu and not judo, why full contact kung fu is not covered, and why MMA is untouched while MT is padded up.

MMA will get on tele, MT with headgear won't. They will pick up shows interstate. The thing about television, it has to be appealing. The viewing public want to see the drama on the faces of the guys in the fight - they won't get that anymore in NSW.

Interesting to see if Fox come to NSW and televise bouts with headgear......

[Lucy Tui]

At this stage from past experience, FOX will not televise show with headgear unless it is Commonwealth/Olympic/ games boxing, Taekwon Do.
We have Pro Events which will be costly. Immortality Show is Pro televised on FOX.
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Lucy Tui]

Latest news, amatuers in kickboxing k1 can wear ankle guards as long as they cover half your shin, and headgear e.g. football style if you like, union/rugby league..
MuayThai fighters knee guards, elbow guards,same style probably the same as ankle and knee guards wet suit type, head gear as above.....Promoters for WKBF amtauer will be supplying headgear shin guards so both fighters are of the same protective equipment..
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Steve P]

Another question if anyone can answer.

We know you can start Muay Thai at 14, but is there a sunset claus?

Is there a cut off age for amateur and pro fighters?

Also are there any specific changes to pre fight medical examination, fighter books, frequency of serology and weigh in (time before bout).

Lots of questions but it a chance for everyone to get their head around it.

I always thought shin pads and headgear was going to be a croc. There is no "Australian standard" on these, and no recommended brands. You could turn up with long white socks and a life saving cap and they wouldn't know the difference.

[schnaxxl]

'Cut off age' is not really what happens.
It's in Cl. 13 of the Reg.
A registered fighter will be reviewed closely every year after they turn 35, for health issues, recent fighting history etc.
Also if they haven't been registered in the year they turn 35, they can't register again when they turn 36.
This has been the policy in boxing for a long time in NSW.
Someone like Bob Mirovic has continued to fight because he's been registered continuously, and his history is not just a series of defeats.

[Steve P]

Schnaxxl,

Part 2 of that is you can fight on after 36 (as a pro fighter) if you have been previously registered (but the registration has lapsed) with the consent of the authority. I guess you get down on your hands and knees and beg like Rocky in the last movie.

As this relates to "combatants" (who are by definition pro fighters) does anyone have clarity on whether there is a cut off for amateur fighters?

[Lucy Tui]

The same as Combat Sports 35years , 14-35yrs unless you have been active in consecutive years and medical says you are fit, MIR...etc...you may fight on..
Regards
Lucy Tui