Muay Thai Vs Kickboxing

[everlast]

Hey Everyone, don't want to start an argument here-just want some opinions.

I've trained in both and would say i enjoy both - but find MT a bit more fun (less repetative) because of the variety (more weapons).

However I would prefer to watch kickboxing - or at the most modified Thai - as I find watching people grapple boring.

Through talking to people i have also found that many MT students/fighters don't have much respect for the sport of KB - as in they see it as easy of less effective.

Agree/Disagree? - comments welcome.

[krama]

everlast
having trained in both styles myself many years back under the former Dana Goodson, I'd say Mui Thai is more effective, Kickboxing more entertaining
practically, you have 4 weapons vs 8(Mui Thai)
in the ring, a good mui thai fighter would beat a good kickboxer, we are talking all weapons, full muai thai rules, I'd put the money on the thai stylist every time.
I still believe a k1 type rules event is the best comrpomise, its dynamick, has knees, and you dont worry about watching a round of 'luv you long time ' [grappling] no offence muai thai nuts up in QLD!!!!

[dutts72]

Firstly its spelt Muay not muai, hmmmm suspect on your knowledge. Anyhow example - rematch JWP V Zambidis, JWP Full Muay Thai rules unders WMC and Zambidis KB under WKA,ISKA etc. Take the K-1 Match and look at JWP smashing Mikes arms,Ribs etc in the Clinch which were shortend by the ref under the rules. Take away those rules and he would have been ****ing him side to side, raining elbow stikes down on his shorter opponent, dumping to the canvas etc. All one way traffic, then if the bout went a full 5 x 3 under WMC Judging system which in all esence is the only way to score Muay Thai as its there sport/martial art not ours. So every kick to what Schivaello might say was well gaurded by his forearm, really ouch ouch, why do you think you get kicked there bone to bone, breaking down the gaurd and abilitity to punch. Same in the clinch with knees stikes to the arms these are all major scoring factors in Muay Thai in Thailand. Esoecially dominance in the clinch and the ability to take your opponent to the ground is showing superior strength and therefore ring dominace. Catching the round kick or push kick and making the other person lose balance is another show of the ring master. This is what is all about, I used to watch Ramon Deckker pound Thais with awesome punches for 5 rounds and to the casual outsider it looked as though he won. What they didnt understand or see was the devasting knee's and forearm kicks or the teep kicks to the front of the leg or midesction to control his opponent. In Thailand punches until recently didnt not even score on a judges card unless it was a ko or resulted in a 8 count. It was seen as an offence to have to wear gloves around the 50's era as there had been a few to many deaths from the bare knuckle era. So they donned gloves, to them a padded part of the body was unworthy of being a scoring technique. The way Thais fight there own martial art is so different from what westerners can comprehend, to many subtle or sublime techniques to never catch the eye. Often you will see one fighter concede during the last round to his opponent, perhaps in the grapple they will talk and say okay just play for the rest of the round you have defeated me. Thats how well they no whats happening in the ring.

If you want to see some interseting stuff I suggest you look up "The Belt is in the Ring" it shows old photos from the 70's from Lumpinnee stadium. Thai v Japanese and American KBoxers from the intial invention of KB taken by the Japanese from Thailand and formed it into KB. Well all these fights lasted less than 1 round, all in favour of the Thai's ofcourse. There is even evidence I have seen myself the tapes of the "Undefeated" Benny the Jet being smashed twice in a few rounds by Thais. The WKA ruled them no contes in the context of Benny's record even though they were not sanctioned by the WKA. Muay Thai has a long history of challenges coming from other stand up fighting martial arts. During the 1930-60's both Hong Kong and China sent there best Ten man teams to fight against the Thais and every single of the 20 bouts lasted less than 1 round!! So to the Japanese,Koreans, Burmese and Laotioan Styles all with similar results. If its Stand up Fighting we are talking about and not MMA then Muay Thai rules the roost and to shut up the Boxing pundits once and for all it should be a all out war 10 Thai Boxers V 10 Boxers
possible match up

Jerome LeBanner V Lennox Lewis - result 1 round KO/TKO TO Jerome
Samart Payakarun V Jeff Fenech lol bit old i no
Sakmongkol v Dela Hoya
Somluck Khumsing v Micky Ward
JWP V Anthony Mundine, Danny Green, Sven Ottke
Paul Briggs V Roy Jones Jnr
Mark Hunt V Mike Tyson wow!!
To many match up to think of and to late at night

peace

AVD72

[Koshy]

TTT for top post Dutts but I think and this is just me that although Mauy Thai is far more dangerous in the ring, the lack of hands of some of the Thais has become their downfall. Perhaps someone who knows alot more than me can comment but I belive that is an area that Westerners are catching upto the Thais. Lets face it when was the last time you saw an aussie take out a Thai from leg kicks? It just doesn't happen!

On the subject of JWP v Zam under full thai rules JWP would win this easily. We saw what happened to Zam when he fought NO elbows, Limited knee strikes and grappling against an average Thai stylist in Mike Cope.(Sorry Mike i still think your a good fighter)

On the last section Dutts are we talking putting Lennox v Lebanner under thai rules? I dont agree that a good boxer cant beat a K-1 fighter. Look at Sapp, he beat Hoost twice and he has no kicks and limited punching ability.

[harls]

Hey Koshy, The little pocket rocket Aaron Leigh took out a Thai Opponent recently with his first leg kick!!! Also Regarding Hoost and Sapp, Sapp does weight much, much more than Hoost and because of that, the weight in Sapp's arms alone impacted through Hoost's guard rendering him almost defenceless against Sapp's flailing arms. But then you must look at Mirko, who stopped Sapp pretty easily even with the massive Weight difference. I think we are talking about fair weight contests here anyway.

[Koshy]

They are both in the heavyweight division.

[dutts72]

Hi Koshy

On the topic of LeBanner V Lewis, yer under full Thai Rules or u could say free rules like the early UFC. In this context was is Lewis going to do against a full power leg kick from LeBanner? Now thinking in perspective LeBanner can throw this technique with all his power at any moment as he knows Lewis is never going to understand the defence. So with 130kg Fenchman slams this kick into a leg that was never trained to take such a shock, nor his mind and everything a Boxer has ever done in the gym will teach you how to absorb such a blow. A midsection kick, head kick whatever the boxer has never experienced is going to cause pain him/her has never known. LeBanner can take a punch as he has taken huge shots from Hunt and co and the punch is all a boxer has. Dont get me wrong I luv boxing, I train in Boxing every morning since making the switch from Muay Thai about 2 years ago. But haven fought Boxing and Muay Thai and sparred many rounds with Pro Boxers and getting whooped I really would luv to have all 8 weapons available to me in such circumsatnces. It all comes down to logic that 8 v 2 is always going to come out on top. Remember Douett V Lester Ellis who in his KB debut smashed a couple of guys, then he fought Douet who absorbed all the shots and if he had been a stong leg kicker would have stopped Ellis. Anyhow Douett won the bout on Points as he threw all of the 4 weapons avaialble wear as Ellis just Bodypunched.

On the topic of Thais not being good boxers, true and not true. Firstl the only Thais you ever see fight here are never Top 10 rated fighters in Bangkok. Except on a few occasions we have seen Sakad, Saeingtion, Jomhod and co. Here are a few examples of Thai's going from Muay Thai to Boxing. Khaosai Galaxy WBC Hall of Fame 42 wins 0 loss and 41 ko's, b4 when a youngster was a Muay Thai boxer. The famous Samart Payakarun who won a WBC title and lost it Jeff Fenech, he won 7 Lumpinnee Titles in 7 weight Divions. Kontaranee Samart younger brother won 5 Lumpinee Titles in 5 weight divions and lost a WBC Title shot via 12th Round Ko to Khaosai Galaxy. Then there is my favourite Somluck Khumsing, he had won 7 Rajadamnern Titles before he switched to Boxing and won Thailands 1st ever Gold Medal at the 1996 Olympics. Upon his return to Muay Thai on the Kings B'Day 1999 he fought a Dutch Star and put on the most amazing display of "Ancient" Muay Thai Techniques and Boxing Skills I have ever seen. JWP fought the same night actually. In this there are many Thai Boxers who fight both Muay Thai and Boxing, several WBC,WBA, IBF champions amongst these. If you ever get the chance to go to Lumpinnee or Rajadamnern Stadiums on a big fight promo you will see great boxing skills as these guys are amazing in all departments. The reason the Boxing skills are always improving is there are a large amount of Cuban Boxing Trainers working out of Muay Thai camps.

Lastly, I have once seen a Western Fighter KO a Thai with Leg Kicks! Ryan Simpson in round 2 at Lumpinnee stadium against the 5th Ranked Thai. It spun me out!!!

PEACE

AVD72

[Don Damage]

Hey Dutts. Great posts. Can you please explain to me what a teep kick is as I've never heard the terminology befor (excuse my ignoance). Thanks Don Damage.

[Koshy]

'teep' is a front kick.

[Don Damage]

Thanks Koshy. :)

[everlast]

Hey Guys

Great to here your comments.

Dutts - your obviously passionate about your MT, and i couldn't agree with you more.

MT wins against any stand up fighting - and if it doesn't then its the fighter not the style.

Still enjoy watching KB or Mod MT

[dutts72]

To Koshy

Teep is actually Push Kick or also can be called taed, front kick Is more of a snap action whereas Teep is more of a push or thrust kick. The ball of your foot is used and can target the midsection, both thighs, hips, face or as a defence when someone throws a round kick you can intercerpt this with the teep or taed sometimes called the pecking kick.

PEACE

AVD72

[krama]

Just another perspective
back in the days when Stan was heavyweight champ - there were quite a few pro boxers - most if not all - from Europe who challenged Stan for his KB world titles - Stan demolished all of them with leg kicks, inside 3 rounds, these blokes simply buckled like toothpicks
the stupid mistake Hoost made against the freakoid was he didnt finish him off with leg kicks and body shots, instead he tried to knock him out cold - big mistake