WMC Statement

[J.N.I]

Saturday 20th June 2003

Dear Muay Thai Supporter


The WMC thanks the fighters for agreeing to compete under what has been difficult circumstances and bastardised rules.

WMC provides the following short summary of events leading up to this promotion so there is no misunderstanding or gossip detrimental to either JNI or the WMC in Sydney arising out of the grant of a Boxing Authority permit for this show.

* As you would all be aware, JNI has promoted 3 Muay Thai shows santioned by the WMC in Sydney over the last 8 months.

* All of these shows have been held to the knowledge of the NSW Department of Sport and Recreation (DSR) and the Boxing Authority of NSW(BA).

* NSW Police were made aware of all JNI shows and the WMC had held considerble discussions with the Police. Up until last week NSW Police had taken the view that JNI promotions were legal and they had no intention of interfering.

* Last week the WMC had a conversation with a Superintendent of Police who sits on the BA who advised us that they would have shut John's earlier shows down but for the fact that they were statute barred, ie the Police were not now able to charge. This is simply not the case. The Police, for whatever reason, have chosen not to prosecute John in respect to those shows.

* We were later advised by the Revesby Club that the same Superintendent had spoken to the local Police officers and instructed them to tell Revesby Workers Club that they should not allow John's show to proceed without a permit the the club would be potentially guilty of a criminal offence and may lose their liquor licence.

* Naturally enough Revesby Workers Club were not prepared to allow John's show to proceed unless a permit from the BOxing Authority was obtained.

* If JNI had not dealt with the Boxing Authority and obtained a permit, then tonight's show would have not proceeded.

* The WMC does not retract from the legal advice that was given to JNI that MuayThai can be competed in NSW without reference to either the NSW DSR or BA

* The WMC points out once again that NSW has the only State Goverment Department that believes that MuayThai shows sanctioned by the WMC are not entitled to be fought under full rules. I would urge you to make this fact known to your local Members of Parliament.

* The matter has been referred to the International WMC Executive and will be the subject of significant political pressure to be brought to bear upon Government.

* The WMC is more than happy to have its views as to the NSW legislation tested in court. We have encouraged the NSW DSR to breach us so the matter can be tested. Instead of doing that they have undertaken a very cynical excercise of pressuring a venue to close down a promotion.

Your's faithfully

Oceania World Muay Thai Council

One World-One Muay Thai<center></center><center></center>

John Ioannou

[Lucy Tui]

Hi John,

By saying all that the bottom line is NO THAIBOXING IN NSW until further notice from what happens in court...
Lets see Thai Boxing in NSW it is a joke we cannot do knees and girls fights also no shin pads it has been a up hill battle for 13 years since I have tried with the Department....
I hope they can come to a compromise, for the sake of the sport here in NSW...<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Wongie]

Lucy

You are either for or against what we are doing in NSW. From reading your posts I feel that you are sitting on the fence. What are your views and do you support what JNI is doing?

Regards
Alan

[paul c]

I was pleased to read that someone was ready to take on the Boxing Authority or whomever they need to fight on this matter all the way.

I personally wish you guys the best of luck.

As far as girls fighting.
If I write honestly on this, I have to tell you guys that I don't like watching female fighters in knee fights, and have no wish to watch them in elbow fights either. I guess I'm just a pus sy, when it comes to watching girls faces bleeding all over the place. But, I don't think that my or anyone's oppinion should be able to stop them from competing in something they wish to be involved in.

I guess that sounds pretty screwed up, but I did things in my twenties and took risks I would neve take now. I can remember doubling my wife on my motor bike at 260kph. Pretty friggen stupid, but there were road regulations in place to stop me from legally doing such things. So I can see the governments point of view. Though, I do agree that it's a sexist law as far as girls not being allowed to compete even in kickboxing.

So, just keep trying......and the rest of us just keep supporting those whom are trying.

[Slyman]

JNI,
Are they (DSR and BA) going to take action against Revesby workers for your other show? If they were going to do it because of this show, what's stopping them from doing it for the other?

Do you feel this show was sabotaged?

I think it's a gutless act by those 'weasley' and 'power-drunk' government bodies to back door the situation by putting pressure on the club. That action shows they are grasping at straws to stop your shows and they know they are wrong in regards to stopping Muay Thai.

[Wongie]

I couldn't have put it in better terms than you Slyman. I am sure the Oceania Muaythai Federation legal team will look very closely at what you said.

[Slyman]

JNI,
Are they (DSR and BA) going to take action against Revesby workers for your other show? If they were going to do it because of this show, what's stopping them from doing it for the other?

Do you feel this show was sabotaged?

I think it's a gutless act by those 'weasley' and 'power-drunk' government bodies to back door the situation by putting pressure on the club. That action shows they are grasping at straws to stop your shows and they know they are wrong in regards to stopping Muay Thai.

[J.N.I]

Hi Ian hope you enjoyed the show. Sabotage well its very interesting you should say that because another Sydney promoter was ringing the same trainers that had fighters on my show saying you better let me match them on my show because J.N.I's will be cancelled from the Boxing Authority. I would then receive numerous phone calls from these trainers having to set them straight.I then challenged the promoter in question but denial was the only answer I would get in return. The most recent and interesting incident was my telephone converstion with a Boxing Authority official on Monday before my show, then receiving a call within 30 minutes from a senior trainer relaying to me almost word for word the discussion that took place, Oh did I mention to you it was the same promoter that said my show would be cancelled that informed him of the conversation.I then challenged the Boxing Authority official asking if our conversations were made public and that if he had told that person.He mention that the same person was at a Boxing match the previous Friday and may have over heard the discussion about that with other officials, so you work that one out, this person knew what I was talking about on Friday before I said it on Monday.
Do you remember the series THE TWILIGHT ZONE ????????????????

John Ioannou

[Don Damage]

I wish i could find the words to express the dissapointment I feel toward this whole situation. It is simple bureaucratic B/S. Let the fighters fight in a safe, controled, environment. Good luck JNI and WMC.

[murti]

John,
Its a shame politics got in the way of the sport. and you are trying to lead an example and head the right direction for muay thai.Regardless it was a good night with awesome fights. I still rate you the best promoter here in NSW ahead of those other dodgy ones. I have a solution for, Hape you every thought of promoting interstate. I have notice other promoters comming to NSW last year and testing the market here. Just a thought

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Alan,
When you mention am I for Muay Thai and girls fighting 100%, I went down this road 13years ago only to be told No we could not do Muay Thai due to it been unsafe etc...I produced the rules and regulations of the WORLD MUAYTHAI ASSOCIATION letter from the President at the time Thom Hanrick who had me as a rep for Australia I had attended there World meeting in 1994 in Holland, I had formed a association with reps from QLD,Sth Australia, NSW...only to be let down once again by the NSWBoxing& NSWSports& Rec...
I lived in Holland for 3mths training and learning Muay Thai by Thom Hanrick himself,I often thought about moving interstate so I can keep with this art , but I was already settled here and decided to stay....So if you ask me do I support Muay Thai my answer is yes..but it does not mean for me to go against the laws here in NSW concerning this sport....I have put alot of time and effort over the years in building the sport here in NSW & Nationally with fighters, trainers, promoters because I am not promoting Muay Thai does that make me any different from supporting the sport here in NSW....
If I had the support for Muay Thai back then like John has now QC backing & WMC I guess I would have done exactly what he has done today...
I hope that it can only help towards the sport growing...
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Wongie]

"The WMC does not retract from the legal advice that was given to JNI that MuayThai can be competed in NSW without reference to either the NSW DSR or BA"

Lucy

The above is what we stand by regarding our position in NSW. What we are proposing is that the legislation does not cover Muay Thai. People relates Thaiboxing to Muay Thai. The fact is we do not recognise Thaiboxing. Muay Thai is to the Thais what Karate is to the Japanese or TKD to the Koreans. It is a martial arts like all other Asian martial arts. We can go back to the old days if the Authorities like by fighting on a flat area without a boxing ring and also using bound fist instead of gloves. I don't see Kyokushin Karate controlled by the government. They have knock down rules allowed to use knees, kicks to the head and pardon my ignorance, knee to the head as well. Yes they do not punch to the head but lets be clear about this. Is the legislation there to ensure fighter safety or is it just for some public servent to wield their power. If it is for the safety of the competitors then they should also look at other full contact martial arts.

The fact is just because we fight in a ring with gloves on does not make it BOXING. It is just a different way the Thais use to project their sport to the rest of the world.

I am not questioning your involvement in the sport. You may have done all the things you said but if you really support the sport of Muay Thai then it would be nice to see you voice your support a little louder.

There is no animosity on my part, just a little over zealous in my support of John and what is is doing for Muay Thai.

On just to save a bit of time....I like to know what you mean by "WMC promotes Kickboxing NSW!" in one of your threads on AX and on here. If you don't want someone like me to respond negetively to your posts please try to be more precise with your comments and maybe your title. Wouldn't it be better if you just title it something like "WMC forced by Government to promote Kickboxing in NSW". At least that way die hearts like me won't respond negetively and maybe question your intention.

[paul c]

I'm confused guys.

WMC promotes Kickboxing?

So what?

I mean, I hope they would promote kickboxing fights, and what would be wrong with that.

Sounds like this was a great show. So now if fox only televises WMC shows from N.S.W, does that mean we are only going to see MT fights?

I wanna see both.

My personal point of view as a spectator is that MT takes more skill. I honestly find it difficult to watch absolute begginers in MT fights. I'd much rather see these guys kickboxing.

I don't mean for this to sound arrogant. I know these guys need to be getting the experience, but I just hope it happens on non televised events.

Anyway, just my oppinion.

[The Rhino]

I can't understand why a bunch of old boxers or guys that have never ever performed a martial arts/kickboxing or muay thai technique can say they are 'qualified' experts to say what people who actually train in the sport can do !

I hope all improves for you guys in NSW...it has been a long time coming...and just really aggravates me that guys in suits, sitting in offices, getting paid from public money say how the sport should operate. I personally don't think that have any right! IT SUCKS !

[Wongie]

Paul C, I respect your opinion. You have to understand that the WMC was formed to promote Muaythai and Muaythai only. They want to keep Muaythai separate from other form of ring fighting ie kickboxing.

[paul c]

O.K fair enough Allan.

A question for J.N.I

John, does this mean that you are now only going to be doing WMC shows?

I mean, are you going to still do the occasional non sanctioned kickboxing show?


I don't know what to feel.
I like watching both sports, and like the variety we sometimes get on a single great show like Scida's in Melbourne. Where he'll have kickboxing, K-1 rules and usually a prestige Muay Thai fight all on the single card.

Regardless of my feeling on the subject, I'm still happy that it does look like N.S.W is legally going to have MT events. What you guys have said in comparing it to Kyokushin makes absolute sense to me, so I truelly do wish you success and a speedy resolution with the beaurocracies.

[Lucy Tui]

Hi Alan,
I guess I should have been more specific with the headline...
With due respect as a sanctioning body here in NSW and a promoter we always try to do what is best for the sport by the laws of the state...(whether we agree with them or not).We as promoters have to apply for PERMITS to do shows it has been that law for as long as I have been involved in the sport 24years.

I agree fully with Why? we are the only state in NSW that do not do Muay Thai, why we wear shin pads, why women cannot fight?
I actually got over a 1000 signatures in 1986 for women to fight here in NSW I sent letters to Neville Wran when he was in office
I will be approaching my local MP today to move in the direction of Muay Thai & women fighting & No Shin Pads..what more do I have to do to make this clear that I support Muay Thai without going against the laws here in NSW..
Regards
Lucy Tui

[Lucy Tui]

ttt..

[duncan]

forget the authorities...they didnt stop the last few shows or some other recent shows in nsw (not by jni) where 8year olds were fighting, this was stopped by a jealous promoter who DOBBED him in. Be in no doubt about this. Under freedom of information or someother Govt legislation it will be possible to flush out this person. I challenge him or her to get on here and explain his/her actions

[Lucy Tui]

Ducan what makes you think it was a promoter. it could have been anybody from the crowd a parent concerned about little kids fighting...I am sure the promoter involved with that event would have made sure it was safe for everyone...
When my student are good enough I will be supporting anyshows who are doing Muay Thai it does not matter about which sanctioning body that is involved....
Regards
Lucy Tui:)

[J.N.I]

To Duncan, good call
To Lucy, why so defencive, do you know something????????????????

John Ioannou

[Lucy Tui]

Please John....am I been defensive or telling it how it is..
Regards
Lucy Tui

[J.N.I]

Lucy it's just a question yes or no.

John Ioannou

[J.N.I]

Lucy my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I do apologise if I am mistakin.In the thread that you yourself created intitled "WMC PROMOTES KICKBOXING" was posted at aproximately 2 am, before I even got home from the show (I didn't know you cared so much).You state and I quote "Well it was interesting to see all WMC fighters, fighting Kickboxing" and you go on to say "congratulations to J.N.I for still getting the fights on with all the controversy week before the show.It somewhat astonishes me that your interest and information on my show is so precise.If only everyone showed the same interest as you,thanks Lucy,friends forever.

John Ioannou

[Lucy Tui]

Hi John,
I had people keeping me informed of your show while I was at the 21st,it was all good saying the fights were great and a good crowd.. I would have loved to have been there, and as far as all the controversy week before everyone was talking about your show??? Why? How?
Well lets hope Muay Thai comes to NSW with all the work WMC and yourself have put together....
Regards
Lucy Tui